PDFs: Should they include flavor material or just plain rules?

[Alzrius]

I'm going to throw my two cents in here. Flavor text is good. Very good. Without it, things become very boring to read.

Here's a great way to test this for yourself: Go read your D&D Player's Handbook and Dungeon Master's Guide. Pretty nice huh? Now go read the D20 SRD on the WotC web page. Not quite the same experience? Viola, the magic of flavor text.

 

[2WS-Steve]

The question isn't whether or not there should be flavor text, but how much of it there should be. A book that's 80% flavor text and 20% crunch just doesn't sell too hot unless it's called Delta Green; that's because Pagan's flavor text is just so cool.

I'm more inclined towards roughly one third flavor text though I think beginning publishers should go perhaps even lower. You need to convince your audience that your flavor text is worth reading and that probably takes one or two publications.

Another thing I think is important with flavor text is to avoid putting all of it in one massive block unless it really does have a plot continuity you need to keep. Intersperse the description with the game mechanic elements so the reader can read a few entertaining passages every time he flips through the book or wants to read a bit more about the background behind a feat. For instance, you can slide a bunch of your setting history into the descriptions of spells, prestige classes, critters, and feats and that keeps those bits more interesting while preventing the book from looking like the first half is a novel. I also think slotting the history into the other sections helps the reader feel like he's discovering secrets about the world as he explores the book.

 

[Geoff Watson]

My suggestion is for a normal, flavourful PDF, with a mix of fluff and crunch; with a just-the-rules Appendix containing all the crunchy bits.
You don't want to slog through the sample NPCs life story every time you want to know exactly what a particular feat or spell does.

Geoff.

 

[Geoff Watson]

I'm going to throw my two cents in here. Flavor text is good. Very good. Without it, things become very boring to read.

Here's a great way to test this for yourself: Go read your D&D Player's Handbook and Dungeon Master's Guide. Pretty nice huh? Now go read the D20 SRD on the WotC web page. Not quite the same experience? Viola, the magic of flavor text.

It depends.
The first time I read it, flavour text is OK.
When I'm looking for a particular rule, no flavour text is better.

Geoff.

 

[Cyberzombie]

A book without flavour text doesn't sell, no matter what the people on the Wizard's board say. The sales figures disagree with them, and the sales figures win.

But it depends entirely on the book in question. A setting or POI book might be 80% flavour and 20% crunch -- or even less crunch, in some cases. My just-published Nat 20 Press PDF, The Elements of Magic is more like 20% flavour and 80% crunch, but it's a rule book -- the opposite end of the spectrum.

(Notice how I sneak the evil shameless plug in there? )

One key is making sure that the text is flavour and not padding. Descriptive text can be a wonderful selling point. Bad short stories that are only tenuously connected to the content will keep me from buying a book any time.

 

[Hygric]

Why not have the regular PDF and a crunch-only PDF that has been optimised for printing in the one product? That way those of us that want can print only the crunchy bits (hopefully with minimal graphics etc to save paper, ink and time while printing), but those of us that wished to could lash out and print the whole shebang, with all the bells and whistles intact. File size would be a little bit bigger, but I get the sneaking impression that some PDF's are a little bit lazy when it comes to optimising file size.

As for buying a PDF with minimal flavour text... nuh-uh.

 

[tensen]

I believe a side thread to this was commented when people were reviewing Bard Game's Common Ground products. There is a split.. almost country based... on whether people prefer more flavor.. or just pure crunch.

It has seemed that:

US wants more crunch
UK wants more flavor

Of course a good balance of the two doesn't hurt in either market.

Of course remember there is still a difference between flavor that enhances the material, and fluff that is storyline that doesn't do anything for the text.

 

[drnuncheon]

Different kinds of flavor

You know, in all the 'crunch vs. flavor' discussions, one thing that doesn't come up enough is the fact that there's 'flavor' and there's 'fluff'.

'Flavor' is good. It denotes non-rules-based text that still adds something to the game. A description of local culture, more on a PrC than just the level benefits, all that stuff helps you run a better game. It's particularly important in setting books - most of the stuff SKR is in favor of in his Forgotten Rums fable is 'flavor'.

Then there's 'fluff'. Fluff is the stuff that has no substance whatsoever - and no flavor either. It's the mediocre little vignettes that take up space and do nothing for your game. I'm going to point a finger at Mongoose here - sometimes I'd find little vignettes in their books that I couldn't even connect with the text in even the most peripheral way - but they're not the only offender. Most of the fiction included in game books is fluff, because most game writers haven't mastered the art of using a story to impart information. (It's a very different skill than writing game rules...)

Anyway, for me: more crunch, more flavor, and no fluff, thanks. (I can get far better fiction on the Story Hour forum for free.)

J

 

[CCamfield]

I think they should have flavour text, but as far as printing is concerned, PDFs could be organized in an unusual way to facilitate printing.

For instance you could (I think) have a section with all the descriptions of monsters, with links to the stat writeups. The stat writeups could be in an entirely different section; if you only wanted to print the stats, you could just do that.

I guess that wouldn't be as useful a product when it was actually printed, if you had to flip back and forth... oh well.

 

[Cyberzombie]

Why not have the regular PDF and a crunch-only PDF that has been optimised for printing in the one product?

I don't think I've ever seen that idea proposed anywhere before now. You might just have an Original Idea there. I don't know how well it would work in practice, since it's never been done, but it certainly something people could think about.