PEACH Ardent|Battlemind

[wasteomana]

Hey everyone, was looking for help trying to figure out what I wanted to do with my character. The campaign I'm playing in starts at level 5 and you can rebuild as often as you like before you hit level 7. I've not hit 7 so I have to come up with a permanent trajectory for my character.

Build Restrictions

• Everything is allowed except for builds that require alternative rewards or Artifacts. While I can get them they are hard enough to acquire that I would prefer to not try and build around one.
• Dragonmarks are allowed and rarity isn't used (So I can have as many rares as I want).
• My party composition will always be random as this is an LFR style game. There are around 100 players in the campaign and some of them are very optimized, others are not optimized at all. Since I don't want to make life very annoying on the DMs I don't want anything crazy optimized, so the goal was to see what the options were and how far I could build a certain way and then tone it down to fit.
• So far I have played up my race and theme very heavily in the group so I would very much prefer not to change those. This is not an absolute restriction, but a strong preference.
• I am planning on staying around as long as I can in the group, but often times these sorts of things fizzle out so I would prefer to stay away from anything that isn't really interesting to play in paragon as I expect all of the playtime to be high heroic and paragon.
• As part of the campaign we get a choice of any 'expertise' feat that we want at level 1. Things like Draconic Spellcaster also count as 'expertise' as long as it gives a feat bonus to hit that scales.

The Core:
Race: Tiefling (+2 CHA, +2 CON)
Class: Ardent|Battlemind
Class Options: Mantle of Elation / Hybrid Fortitude
Level: 7
Background: Arcane Student Who Saw Too Much
Theme: Yakuza
Starting scores: STR 11, CON 17, DEX 10, INT 8, WIS 12, CHA 15. Bumping CHA and CON at every opportunity.
Trained Skills: Intimidate, Streetwise, Endurance

POWERS
Melee Basic Attack - Unaugmented Intent Laid Bare
Intent Laid Bare - Mostly for the unaugmented. I'm not sure if I'll ever replace this as I really enjoy the stickiness from putting "can't shift" on all my MBAs. Open to other options if people have them. I tend to use my PPs off of my turn for the Catch-22, so most of my turns are MBA with Intent or Charging with Intent.
Living Fortress
Life's Losing Hand
Unsteadying Rebuke - 1/2 of the catch 22. I may change it to Forceful Reversal at 13. The way it is currently being played in the campaign is that the DM announces they are going to attack me and then I can decide to use Rebuke or not. If I burn PP that often means I can slide them out of range on a hit.
Invitation to Defeat
Mental Triumph
Lightning Rush - The other 1/2 of the Catch 22.

FEATS
Free: Light Blade Expertise
Level 1: Imperious Majesty
Level 2: Hybrid Talent - Hybrid Talent Option: Battlemind Armor Proficiency
Level 4: Cunning Stalker
Level 6: X

ITEMS
Heavy Shield x1
Amulet of Life +1 x1
Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier) x1
Cognizance Crystal (heroic tier)
Mind Hunter's Scale Armor +2 x1
Eager Rapier +2 x1


Options:
Right now I'm struggling between a bunch of different options. While the character is |Ardent, primarily I'm just a defender who happens to have a heal and gives themselves and the party a nice damage bonus on OAs from the mantle.

"Unstoppable"
Goal: To be impossible to lock down.
Feats:
6: Superior Will
8: Disciple of Freedom (Retrain my U6 to something else)
10: Psionic Fortune
11: Wrathful Warrior
PP: Dreadnought
12: Ubiquitous Shield

I was also considering going Hero's Poise and MC Paladin, but I have no idea what my PP would be if I did that. If I did MC paladin I'd also change my expertise to Devout Protector Expertise.

"Crippler"
Goals: To apply as many negatives to my enemies as possible
Feats:
6: Mantle of Misfortune
8: Mark of Warding.
10: Bloodhunter's Dread
11: Sly Dodge (Requires small change to stats to have a starting dex of 12)
PP: Strong-Arm Enforcer
12: Hammer Shock (Retrain Expertise to Bludgeon expertise)
14: Rattling Wrath
16: Superior Will

This feels odd and I have no idea how effective it will be or what PP to take. The goal would be to toss out a lot of negatives and possibly a use rattling as often as I can, but I don't know how to really get the job done. Another option to do this would be using a Githyanki weapon and Psychic lock but I don't know which would be a better plan.

"Oncoming Storm"
Goals: I have access to Mark of Storm, so use Mark of Storm and slide/prone people into corners so bad things happen to them.

6: Mark of Storm (Changing Expertise to Flail Expertise)
8: Superior Will
10: Wrathful Warrior
11: Repel Charge
PP: Lyrandar Wind-Rider
12: Lashing Flail
14: Ubiquitous Shield
16: Hindering Shield

One of the things I'd love to be able to do with this is Dragging Flail, but I don't see any way to do it without seriously hurting my other stats. 15 Dex just seems like too tall of an order. I can sorta fake it as my Intent Laid Bare will count as an MBA for Lashing Flail but its not quite as good as it would be otherwise. It would also be a good option to go Eternal Blade for PP with this build as I will hopefully be making atleast one OA per combat to benefit from it.

So one of the hardest choices right now is Paragon Paths. I'm going to list all the ones that seem pretty interesting, and then try to get some help striking things from the list:

Paragon Paths (Requirements or build it goes with)

1. Lyrandar Wind-Rider (Oncoming Storm Build, Mark of Storm)
2. Quicksilver Demon (Unstoppable Build)
3. Captain of Fortune (MC Warlord, Iron Armbands become Bracers of Mental Might for E11)
4. Iron Vanguard (Unstoppable Build, MC Fighter)
5. Soaring Blade (MC Monk)
6. Stonefire Rager (MC Barbarian)
7. Angelic Avenger (MC Cleric)
8. Dusk Oracle (Dusk Oracle, Change Training and/or MC to get Insight/Religion training)
9. Idol of Darkness (MC Paladin)
10. Eternal Blade
11. Strong-arm Enforcer (Crippler, MC Rogue)

What I need help with:

1. I have tons of options but not a lot of direction. There are so many ways this could go and none of them are jumping out at me. If you see a reason to take one over another, let me know why. If you see a way to get one of those build goals done better (like fear op or something for penalties), then let me know
2. Paragon Paths. If nothing else take a look at the core and my giant list of possible PPs and help me narrow it down.
3. Starting Stats. I feel like I'll need my stats to be very carefully placed for pre-reqs depending on what way I go, but I'm not certain I know what all those pre-reqs will be. For instance it might be worth it if I don't go a build that marks a lot to go 16/16 Con/Cha and put 12s in STR/WIS so I can have Battle Awareness instead of Wrathful Warrior as my MC in paragon if I go fighter.
4. Power Selection. I'm having a hard time picking what I want to do with this guy and it extends to what powers to take. First I'm trying to get the basics down, but if there are any must-haves along the way I'll be happy to hear them. I also am not sure if I'm placing too much value on Intent Laid Bare unaugmented as my MBA/OA. I could also go Paladin and get Paladin's Wrath, or just Melee Training and pick up another ardent At-will.
5. Items. I've never really built a Psionics character, so item selection seems a little daunting.

Thanks in advance for any/all help!

 

[baldhermit]

That is a lot of questions. Aside of Invitations to Defeat, the whole |Ardent bit does not make a lot of sense to me. Very costly, and for the most part making you less good at your main job.

Feat for armor, less power choices, you did not take the group marking available as a U2.


So what I would do here is either go dwarf and be able to self-heal once per encounter (perhaps later even go MC Warden for some second wind abuse, prerequisite 13 Str) go full on Battlemind for a true defender, or go Tiefling Battlemind|Warlock for Hellish Rebuke play, or Eldritch Strike + Flail action as you already mentioned.
(also gives you access to Warlocks Wrath)


I do not much care for the Living Fortress power, since it forces your allies to be near your, much to their detriment if the DM ever brings a burst caster.


Overall your plan seems to be to deal in single target lock down. You do need that U2, and generally you need to think bigger. As a result, that Cunning Stalker feat - in my opinion - needs to be dropped like a hot potato.

I personally would go for the 'Unstoppable' plan with a pure Battlemind, 11/17/10/8/10/16.

If you stay with the Yakuza theme, ask the DM on a ruling on Ruthless Demonstration, and then take the Scales of War - Wandering Duelist background.

 

[wasteomana]

First off, thanks for the reply.

That is a lot of questions. Aside of Invitations to Defeat, the whole |Ardent bit does not make a lot of sense to me. Very costly, and for the most part making you less good at your main job.

I honestly wouldn't even say that Invitation is a big part of it. There are a few ardent powers that are solid and interesting on a defender chassis, but mostly the one I took it for initially was the combination of at-wills. While it might have high opportunity cost, getting an MBA that is going off a co-primary stat (as I will likely go 16/16 in the end) that also prevents them from shifting is pretty handy.

Feat for armor, less power choices, you did not take the group marking available as a U2.

You are 100% correct. I did not take the group marking utility for the instances where I'm grouped with a fighter and a paladin. or a Knight and a Berserker. Playing from 5-7 I haven't needed a lot of mass marking potentials, partially because my mark punishment is very limited and partially because I tend to find myself in a group with another defender (who may or may not have mass marking powers). Instead I've focused on making myself a nuisance.

So what I would do here is either go dwarf and be able to self-heal once per encounter (perhaps later even go MC Warden for some second wind abuse, prerequisite 13 Str) go full on Battlemind for a true defender, or go Tiefling Battlemind|Warlock for Hellish Rebuke play, or Eldritch Strike + Flail action as you already mentioned.
(also gives you access to Warlocks Wrath)

So the BM|Warlock thing is something I've looked a bit into. My primary problem with it, is the lack of power points. I have not played high enough as a psionics class to know whether it will really annoy me to have so few PPs to play with, but I really think it will. Looking at what I get from |Warlock I don't see how it is significantly better than |Ardent. I get a solid MBA (ES being likely better than unaugmented Intent, but both are quite good), but I don't get the utility heal or access to some of the excellent choices for power selection. When I build into warlock the thing I want to really do is build into teleports and go Evermeet. But I've also already played that as a SM|Lock and don't really want to repeat that playstyle.

I considered dwarf, but I would only do that if I went full BM. Which I do not want to do as the primary goal was to see what sort of fun I could have as this combination. I think if I went full BM I'd actually go wilder and pick up the wilder PP as well as enough dex for HBO so I can Brutal Barrage all day long once I've got it and crit fish. But that playstyle doesn't sit well with me at the moment, partially because I've got a player in one of my games that is that build.

I do not much care for the Living Fortress power, since it forces your allies to be near your, much to their detriment if the DM ever brings a burst caster.

I've only used it 5 or so times. I don't think I've seen an instance where an ally has moved into my fortress for the cover. Mostly I just use it for myself, and give cover when I go near allies to engage things. I think it might be interesting to Lightning Rush and bring cover with me to possibly cause an attack to miss although that is a very niche thing to hope for. If not Living Fortress what would you suggest?

Overall your plan seems to be to deal in single target lock down. You do need that U2, and generally you need to think bigger. As a result, that Cunning Stalker feat - in my opinion - needs to be dropped like a hot potato.

The U2 has already been addressed (and I still might pick up the mass-mark at some point if I stop playing with at-least 1 other defender all the time). Cunning Stalker by itself on a defender is bad. The big thing is that it isn't by itself. I have it because I have Yakuza. If I didn't have Yakuza, I wouldn't have it, if I didn't have Cunning Stalker, I wouldn't have Yakuza. While it does mean that I've got one target more locked down than another, I typically spend most of my turns using either augmented or unaugmented Intent Laid Bare on one target and marking another, ideally being between both of them. Being next to a monster who can't shift and really doesn't want to provoke from me often works better than marking them as the Shift+Charge struggle is real.

I personally would go for the 'Unstoppable' plan with a pure Battlemind, 11/17/10/8/10/16.

I think that the more I work on it, the more I'm likely to go with the Unstoppable plan. Now I just have to settle on a PP.

If you stay with the Yakuza theme, ask the DM on a ruling on Ruthless Demonstration, and then take the Scales of War - Wandering Duelist background.

What is the ruling question on Ruthless Demonstration? Is it what sort of actions people who are intimidated can/will take? Mostly I don't care about succeeding on the intimidate but rather I want the -2 it tosses out. I have always felt that intimidation optimization was not very fun (useful, not very fun) and also something that is pretty DM dependant. This character is going to be in an LFR style campaign where there are a lot of different DMs and I would prefer not to set myself up to be annoyed by this functioning significantly different in different games.

Thanks for the replies bald!

 

[baldhermit]

The reason I bring up Intimidate with Ruthless Demonstration is that it effectively means you can take an opponent out of the combat when he just got bloodied. You're not the striker, it may not happen every combat, but it can and will happen some times.

Some DMs really get peeved when players "cheat" their designed combats like that. So that is why I said to check with your DM beforehand. You apparently are already aware of this issue.

 

[MwaO]

The reason I bring up Intimidate with Ruthless Demonstration is that it effectively means you can take an opponent out of the combat when he just got bloodied. You're not the striker, it may not happen every combat, but it can and will happen some times.

Some DMs really get peeved when players "cheat" their designed combats like that. So that is why I said to check with your DM beforehand. You apparently are already aware of this issue.

Well, there's also the basic problem of what surrender means. When someone surrenders, there are a range of options. And Intimidate is not mind control.

i.e. you attack a surrendered opponent's friends, the surrendered opponent has choices to make, many of which could be to re-enter the combat.

 

[wasteomana]

Well, there's also the basic problem of what surrender means. When someone surrenders, there are a range of options. And Intimidate is not mind control.

i.e. you attack a surrendered opponent's friends, the surrendered opponent has choices to make, many of which could be to re-enter the combat.

This is one of the primary reasons I'm looking to ignore that portion of it.

Also I'm trying to see what kind of obscure items might be really cool with this build. I'm not really used to being able to take as many rares as I want and playing at paragon.

After sitting and looking at it for a while I think I'm going to just play Unstoppable or some variant of that. Now I'm just trying to figure out whether I should MC paladin for Hero's Poise + Mantle of Understanding and take Eternal Blade as my PP or if I should MC Fighter and take Dreadnought. Thoughts?

 

[baldhermit]

I want to apologize for my earlier comment as I do not think I quite took your special circumstances properly into account. You want to be a melee controller. For that reason I would still go with the Unstoppable version, but perhaps still look at |warlock for their powers. If you do stick with |Ardent, and that does make sense, I would give your stat spread a good hard look. Neither MC Fighter nor MC Paladin is anywhere near cheap for a Con/Cha build.

For PPs I actually like Zephyr Blade (more survivability and more striker). Ardent PPs Awakened Visionary would make you more defender.

 

[wasteomana]

The MC paladin I would take would be Walker of Dark Ways which has no pre-reqs and the fighter one would be Wrathful Warrior (nowhere near as good as Battle Awarness normally but I use all my immediates so the extra MBA is mostly not needed except for as a way to punish something marked.)

I hadn't looked at either of those PPs and I will when I get home. Thanks Bald.