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Pendragon d20?

Maerdwyn

First Post
ColonelHardisson said:


Sure. Post it here or in the thread I linked to above. Or both.

D20 Personality Traits and Passions -

(Adapted from Green Knight's Pendragon RPG. )
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Notes – this uses traits and passions descriptively, rather than prescriptively in that score reflect a character’s actions rather than dictating them, and this is different that they are used in Pendragon.

The bookkeeping has not proved to be a problem, as during the adventures, players record only a checkmark here or there. At the end of an adventure, the totaling takes place, but doesn’t add much time over and above division of treasure, etc.

During play, the modification of saves or skill checks with traits and passions has - due to my brain's limitations - proven quite dependent upon the individual player’s interest in the system. I tend to remember the characters’ most prominent traits, but players generally need to remind me if they have a particular bonus or penalty due to a passion I’ve forgotten about.
**********************

To Determine Personality Trait Values:

Player rolls/sets charisma as normal, but many standard game effects of charisma are ignored. Similarly, alignment is scrapped. Instead, things normally governed by Charisma or alignment are handled by this system of Personality traits and Passions, adapted from the Pendragon RPG.

To set personality traits, a player takes 20 points and divides them between each pair of traits. However, the difference between the two values cannot normally be greater than 10 (i.e. One value 15, the other, 5). For each point of Charisma bonus or penalty, that maximum difference is increased or decreased by 2. Thus, someone with a 1 CHA would have all 10s for his personality trait, and will have basically no discernable personality. By contrast, any trait that is 18/2, 19/1, or 20/0 is extremely exaggerated – the character may develop a reputation or nickname based upon the trait with the higher value. Having more than a couple of these exaggerated traits may tend to turn a character into a caricature.

Passions are similar, but not handled in pairs. One’s CHA score is the maximum starting value for any Passion that a character develops, though a character may choose to set it lower.

Game effects:
Skills involving charisma are now modified by the appropriate personality trait. For example, Disguise is modified by the Deceitful score. Turning Undead is modified by the Hate (Undead) passion.

An exaggerated (18-20) score on the Left side of the table will result in increased Enech (This is a measure of honor. See the Celts Historical reference in the conversion library if it gets added again, or my webpage at http://www.gaiatec.com/maerdwyn/enechset.htm) while exaggerated right side scores result in decreased Enech. Which traits fall on which side depend on the character's society. ( In Thuringia, cruelty is valued more highly than Mercy, so Cruel is on the left side of the table for Thuringian characters. In Kerniw, where rough living conditions make every life valuable, and force neighboring villages to work together closely in order to survive, Mercy is placed on the left side of the chart.)

A score of 18 on a left score score results in +1 Enech; 19 receives +3; 20 receives +5. On a right side score, 18 receives -2; 19 receives -6; 20 receives -10 enech. +10 is the maximum Enech bonus from personality scores; there is no maximum penalty.
Whenever a character’s needs to make a roll that corresponds to a particular trait or passion, the modifier gained from that trait or passion is used, rather than the Character's CHA modifier. For example, Vog (a Half-Orc, CHA 6) has a Loyalty(Cunneda):12. He is charmed and told to attack King Urien of the Cunneda. Rather than an opposed charisma check, which would result in a –2 to Vog’s roll, he uses Loyalty (Cunneda) which results in a +1. If the character has no particularly applicable trait or passion, use the character's CHA modifier instead.

Both Traits and Passions change over the course of the game, as character actions warrant. If someone with Honest 15/Deceitful 5 lies and uses subterfuge consistently over the course of an adventure, Honesty may be lowered by a point, and Deceitful raised by a point, to reflect the drift in personality. If a character with a Loyalty(Cunneda) 8, puts himself at great personal peril to help the tribe, his loyalty would increase.

During the adventure, as the characters actions warrant, the DM directs the players to put hatch marks next to appropriate traits. At the end of an adventure, if there are enough points next to a trait according to the following table, the score changes appropriately. If a character has marks on both sides of a trait pair, subtract the smaller number of marks on one side from the number of marks on the other.

[snip - chart showing number of checkmarks needed to shift a trait one number in either direction.. It cost more checkmarks the further away from 10 you are shifting, but only 1 checkmark to shift towards 10. Full chart is on my site - http://www.gaiatec.com/maerdwyn/Personality Traits.htm]


Personality traits cannot rise above 20 or drop below 0. Passions can rise infinitely.

EXAMPLES:

Say you have a player running a Paladin, with a pairing of Merciful 17/Cruel 3. On defeating a group of hobgoblins, a prisoner is taken, and the party is out of danger, and the paladin says "I kill it - he'll probably try to escape anyway." If in the DM’s judgment, the cruelty was particularly out of place, he would also place a mark next to his cruel score.

If being merciful was particularly difficult (if the prisoner had previously killed the character's wife, for example), and he was merciful, you might have him place a mark next to "Merciful." If in this same situation, the paladin kills the hobgoblin, the DM might not place a checkmark next to Cruel, as the action was not particularly out of place.

At the end of the adventure, our paladin, Richard, has three checks next to cruel, and only one next to merciful. Subtracting 1 from 3, leaves two checks next to cruel, dropping his merciful score to 15, and raising his cruel score to 5. He also has, over the past several adventures, amassed 8 marks next to his “Valorous” trait, raising it from 17 to 18, in the process earning +1 Enech and the moniker “Richard Lionheart.” However, should his Merciful score ever drop below 15, he will have run afoul of his religious order, and will lose his paladin status.


Trait and Passion sheets for Characters from various regions in the campaign (Need to fix these links)
Ceredigion and Icenia
Kerniw
Caithness
Thuringia
 

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Corinth

First Post
I'd love to see a D20 version of Pendragon. That said, I'm in total agreement that the D&D magic rules are not appropriate. I am at a loss for what to suggest as a replacement.
 

ColonelHardisson

What? Me Worry?
Corinth said:
I'd love to see a D20 version of Pendragon. That said, I'm in total agreement that the D&D magic rules are not appropriate. I am at a loss for what to suggest as a replacement.

OK, I can understand that some don't feel the D&D/d20 magic system works for this type of setting. So let's look at it this way...why doesn't it work? What about the D&D magic system doesn't fit the setting? I mean specifics. I'm not arguing; I'm just wanting to see the reasons against using it detailed, so we can figure out what would work for people.

What about the Ars Magica system of magic? I'm sure it could be adapted for d20 use with a bit of work.
 

Corinth

First Post
ColonelHardisson said:
What about the D&D magic system doesn't fit the setting? I mean specifics.
The D&D magic system works on a blend of principles originated in the works of Jack Vance and Roger Zelazny. This is where the preparation paradigm stems from; Vance's memorization of magic from the Dying Earth series and Zelazny's preparing of spells in the Amber series are the sources, and the effects of magic use is both immediate and obvious. Magic use is explained and used in the way that science is explained in hard science fiction.

Magic in Arthurian myth is slow, subtle and in the hands of what are properly called plot contrivances. Magicians are secondary characters in Arthurian tales, and magic is a plot device meant to facilitate the story. How magic works or why its used in this way and not that one is not important, and therefore doesn't conform to the requirements placed upon any RPG element meant for use by the players. Thus, while magicians are possible as PCs, they are not recommended. For this to change, the nature of magic in Arthurian myth must be defined and codified in the same manner as combat, love or domain administration.

Of the systems published for use with D20, the best extant one suitable for adaptation is the one used in Call of Cthulhu. The use of magic saps the caster, forcing him to retire for some time after employing it, but it is capable of effects both subtle and powerful. It also allows the creation of enchanted items, and it allows for the use of group rituals and ritual magic to gather and use power in a more effective manner, but never does it steal the thunder of the warriors.
 

ColonelHardisson

What? Me Worry?
Yeah, I was thinking that a variant of Call of Cthulhu d20's magic would be in order. As I mentioned, Ars Magica is a system that bears looking at; I believe Teflon Billy is familiar with the game, so I'd like to hear what he has to say. The wizards in that game are the dominant force, but the system itself could be good inspiration for a Pendragon d20 conversion. I'd also say that a system based on the spell seed system of the Epic Level handbook, adjusted down for non-epic play, would be inetersting to look into.

Still, I think careful choosing of spell lists would also help, if one wanted to retain the basic D&D magic system. For example, the spell list for the witch in the DMG is along the lines of what I mean, as is the entire Adept class.
 

derverdammte

Explorer
ColonelHardisson said:
I'd also say that a system based on the spell seed system of the Epic Level handbook, adjusted down for non-epic play, would be inetersting to look into.
What about that variant system that (used to be?) on Sean Reynolds' site?
 


mmadsen

First Post
What about the D&D magic system doesn't fit the setting?
First and foremost, a wizard needs a reason not to cast spells. A D&D wizard can -- and is expected to -- cast many spells every day. We can change the spells-per-day table to spell-per-week (or month), or we can use a Cthulhu-esque system, or we can simply declare all magic mysterious and subject to gamemaster fiat.
 

Tonguez

A suffusion of yellow
A houserule I adopted from Enworld is the spell recovery as 1 day per level. This means that a level 9 spell takes 9 days to 'recover' before it can be used again (so in a standard 30 day month it can be used 3 times)

I also require a Spellcraft check at a DC of 10+spell level X 5 (level 9 spells have DC 55) but the check can be increased using Rituals (+1 per round used to cast, +2 for each person involved) and a Sacrifice system (the HP of the sacrifice victim is added to the Spellcraft check). Any failed spellcheck causes either con or wis damage.
 


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