Penumbra Bestiary Preview Monster

[JohnNephew]

Cergorach,

I understand that some people may not buy the book because it is too expensive for them. We're definitely taking a risk by making this a one huge book, the biggest monster book yet, for $45 rather than, say, two or three smaller volumes with bigger type at $25 to $35 each, or a half dozen 64-page softcover books at $15 each (the size and price of Green Ronin's fine monster books Legions of Hell and Jade Dragons and Hungry Ghosts, for example). For those who wonder why it costs what it does, I just wanted to provide an explanation. I hope the argument of $45 for one volume versus $90 for six volumes with the same amount of content will make itself on the store shelves.

You're right that some consumers don't care about whether creators get paid reasonably, or at all -- but we already have the risk that consumers like that are waiting to get scanned copies off the net for free anyhow. (I've noticed that the cheap price of certain books doesn't stop the pirates from trading them.)

I hope the amount of material this book provides will make it a very good value, and the kind of definitive work that will earn it a spot on a game retailer's shelf for years to come. We won't know until it's out on the market.

ps. it might get you more customers if you made a promo pdf with all the creatures listed by name and CR and for each creature a single line of text that 'explains' the creature.

This is a good idea. We'll see if we get a chance to work it into the promotional plans. (I haven't gotten to the end yet, but some of the material in the appendixes might serve the purpose and be easy to PDFify.)

 

[Eridanis]

More than 200 monsters and templates, I know. Each entry is at least 1 page; some multi-page entries have more than one monster, though. (E.g., I just proofed the Court of the Pale King, which has two critters -- the Pale King and the Hounds of Arawn, plus the description of Arawn as a new deity.) I'm not sure if we have a final tally somewhere...

Plus, judging by your first two previews, you'll be including some spell, items, and other goodies that don't normally appear in a monster description. One of the things I liked about Eden Studios' LIBER BESTARIUS was that it wasn't afraid to spend two pages or more on a single creature to get the idea of the creature and some story hooks across, and I'm glad you're doing the same.

 

[Word]

Let's do some numbers.

Online customers will get a more than a few previews to show off The Bestiary, believe me. I know that you'll need something substantial to subsitute for the essential thumbing-through of a new book. If you'd like a PDF index, I'll do it. As we get closer to the release of the book, we'll have a PDF booklet of adventure seeds that were cut from the book to make room for more monsters.

How many monsters? Our last count says more than 220 monsters, including samples from templates. Consider that. Each monster gets at least a page, and a lot of these monsters have more than one page each. We've even had to decrease the typeface a bit in order to squeeze all of our monsters into the book.

Yeah, I've been a little silly in my enthusiasm but I'm happy to be enthusiastic. This book has got the goods, people. The numbers (price, page count, monsters) are what they are and like all business ventures there's some risk for us in this product, but I believe that anyone who gets The Bestiary will be happy with their purchase.

Look at it this way: We're not going to be taking money out of your bank accounts by printing this book. You, the consumer, get to choose what you'll buy and why. We're just trying to give you a really good reason to get this book by making it the best we can.

The only buyer's remorse I expect a Bestiary owner to experience is shoulder pain. From carrying the book home. Did I mention how big the book is?



word,
Will Hindmarch
Atlas Games

 

[spacecrime.com]

Re: Re: Re: Preview Monsters and Book Price

The primary reason for the expense is what we are paying to the creative talent behind the book.

I'm going to note that the Atlas pay rate -- which is indeed comparable to that of much bigger companies and better than average for the industry -- is one of several reasons why working with John and his merry gang is a very pleasant and fulfilling thing. John is much too modest to point out that he is one of the most thoughtful, honest, and author-supportive publishers in the business, so I will.

IMHO, most of us who work on a project for Atlas Games work just a little bit harder on it. I find I want to do my very best for John, because I know he's worth my best. Which means that I expect the Penumbra Bestiary to be gob-smackingly good, because there are a lot of great authors (and occasional schmoes like me) doing their best work in it.

We have a "satisfaction guaranteed" policy in my store, which I find to be useful in encouraging people to try out big-ticket items like this. I'll certainly be pointing the policy out to people who are worried they may not get enough value for their money -- and if I can get those people to try the book, I think they're going to be very satisfied indeed. I don't expect any copies to come back.

cheers,

 

[Cergorach]

hmm...

I just thought up a new entry for the Bestiary:

Game Writing Nymph (aka.John Nephew)
Medium Size Fey

Need to think up some stats, but special abilities should be:
Writing Incentive (Su): anyone under contract receives 4cts/word and a +3 incentive bonus to Profession (RPG writing).

;-)

 

[Nellisir]

Re: Re: Re: Preview Monsters and Book Price

However, I stand by our decisions.

Not a lot of d20 companies offer 4 cents per word on open calls. (In fact, I don't know if anyone else does; when I've looked, I've seen lower numbers, even from companies that are larger than us and likely to sell substantially more copies.) I know it's tempting to offer minimal to no compensation, because there are so many people eager to be published, they practically invite you to take advantage of them. But I strongly believe that this sends the wrong message, and is not the right way to run a business. I think we should demand professionalism, and offer professionalism in turn, both in how we deal with writers (both veteran and novice) and in the rate of pay that we offer, even on an open call. (And 4 cents/word barely qualifies as a "professional" rate. I was making that as a novice writer for Dragon 17 years ago!) D20 is big enough that it should be able to support those rates, and commercial projects that can't provide decent compensation to their creators maybe need to be rethought.

$45 is the very high end of what I'll pay, and I was very skeptical of pricing that high. I love monster books, but $45 is more money than I've ever paid for a book (except, possibly, Roget's International Thesaurus). This post, however, has virtually guaranteed that I'll buy a copy.

Now to actually go look at the previews...

Nell.

 

[Ashy]

Well, all I have to say is that whether or not the customers care what some 30 year old geek gets pad, *I* do, and it just so happens to be that I am a *also* a customer. Further, I just happen to know lots of other customers, all of which just happen to be ready to line up and lay down cold hard cash for this book just because I wrote a bit of it; and it just so happens that the reason that I wrote something for it was because I know that Atlas pays well and treats freelancers professionally.

So, I think that John is dead on with his explanation. Further, he and the gang over at Atlas are hands down some of the best folks that a freelancer like ME (who happens to own his own home that his wife and four kids inhabit) could be lucky enough to deal with...

 

[SkeletonKey Ed]

I'll buy this book the day it comes out.

Atlas pays 4 cents a word because they know that you get what you pay for.

I'll buy this book for $45 because I know that they know that.

Dishing out the freelance fees that they did for the Penumbral Bestiary says to me that they didn't accept anything but the best material.

Cheers - Ed

 

[coyote6]

Re: Added Value

$45 is a lot, but I'm willing to give it a shot. I've been working overtime lately . . .

*Again with the smelling and the fear stuff.

Hmm, have you been watching too much Buffy the Vampire Slayer, or are you just getting dialog from Joss Whedon?

 

[Cergorach]

Well, all I have to say is that whether or not the customers care what some 30 year old geek gets pad, *I* do, and it just so happens to be that I am a *also* a customer. <snip-snap>

Your biased ;-)
(but i'm happy for you that you own your own home, have a wife and are 'cursed' with four kids, how do you get anything done is a complete mystery to me!)

But as John pointed out in the past, the online Enworld community (and friends) isn't the target audience of most print publications...

I also dig it that people get decently paid, but $45 is still a lot of money. My boss fills in my paycheck you know (i wish it wasn't so though), and that amount isn't infinite. Especiallly these months, i have to invest in a new computer setup, redecorate my room.. erm... my parents basement... erm... nevermind ;-)