Penumbra Bestiary Preview Monster

[Eridanis]

As for the design, I like how you've placed OGL material clearly seperate from your PI descriptions. I'm sure the book will be worth the price, but that price will be out of my range for a long time. Doesn't mean I won't drool over it at my FLGS, though. I look forward to more previews!

 

[Voadam]

Thanks for the congrats,

Will, is there an expected release date?

 

[Cergorach]

Re: Preview Monsters and Book Price

Regarding price: Yes, the book is $45 dollars, black-and-white. It's also 368 pages. That's more pages than the Monster Manuals (224 pages), the EverQuest monster book (211 pages), the Monsternomicon (240 pages) or the Ravenloft monster book (160 pages). The Bestiary is a big book.

I'm probably going to be a prick, but you forgot one, namely Necromancers "The Tom of Horrors" at 328 pages it's only $29.95...

 

[JohnNephew]

Re: Re: Preview Monsters and Book Price

I won't deny, the Penumbra Fantasy Bestiary is expensive.

The primary reason for the expense is what we are paying to the creative talent behind the book. Yes, the printing is very expensive, but we will be paying more money to the writers and artists than we will to the printers. And, in truth, the book should be MORE expensive than it already is; we're eating a lot of the added costs, by accepting a lower gross margin than usual on this book.

If we had taken a number of steps -- such as paying authors only 1-3 cents per word (rather than the 4 cents we chose), recycling existing monsters rather than providing 100% original material, not illustrating each monster entry, or cutting back the number of monsters and using a larger typeface (the body type is only 8.5 points!) -- we could have reduced the price substantially.

However, I stand by our decisions.

Not a lot of d20 companies offer 4 cents per word on open calls. (In fact, I don't know if anyone else does; when I've looked, I've seen lower numbers, even from companies that are larger than us and likely to sell substantially more copies.) I know it's tempting to offer minimal to no compensation, because there are so many people eager to be published, they practically invite you to take advantage of them. But I strongly believe that this sends the wrong message, and is not the right way to run a business. I think we should demand professionalism, and offer professionalism in turn, both in how we deal with writers (both veteran and novice) and in the rate of pay that we offer, even on an open call. (And 4 cents/word barely qualifies as a "professional" rate. I was making that as a novice writer for Dragon 17 years ago!) D20 is big enough that it should be able to support those rates, and commercial projects that can't provide decent compensation to their creators maybe need to be rethought.

We may well be pursuing the wrong strategy. For example, D20 may now be in the state where the real path to success is recycling other peoples' OGC in new packages with the lowest possible price point. My hope, though, is that a book with the density of content and creativity found in the Penumbra Fantasy Bestiary will offer lasting value to D20 fans.

 

[Word]

Added Value

Hey again, you all,

d20Dwarf is right, The Penumbra Fantasy Bestiary makes already-terrific books like the Monster's Handbook even more valuable.

Keep in mind that The Bestiary is a completely original work, with no reprinted monsters. Giving new life to classic monsters is great, but that's not what we're doing in The Bestiary. The creation and presentation of 220 original monsters and templates isn't cheap (see John's explanation above), but you get what you pay for.

Likewise, if the Tome of Horrors is excellent at 328 pages, then The Bestiary is downright awesome at 368 pages, right? Believe me, I can understand the sticker shock, but I trust that when you see the book on the shelves of your local retailer you'll see a lot more than the price tag. You have to decide for yourself whether or not to buy the book, but The Bestiary will make a good case for itself when you meet it face to face. I think it's worth saving up for, myself.

So how long do you have to set aside your nickels? Well, the Bestiary is being proofread right now. That's a herculean task suitable for two Benedictine monastery's worth of scribners but we're doing it all ourselves, so it'll take us some time. Once that's done, though, the book goes to the printer for six weeks of delicate care and master craftsmanship.

Why six weeks? Well, normally the printer just handles the book themselves, but this time they've got to hire wranglers and rent tranquilizer guns because the book is such a monster. It can smell fear, remember.*

word,
Will Hindmarch
Atlas Games

*Again with the smelling and the fear stuff.

 

[CSB046]

Expensive or not, I'll definitely take a look if my local game store has it. I'm a sucker for a new monster book (or a new book of spells, or a new campaign setting, or...)

Availability might be the only potential problem; if the local stores DON'T have it, I'm not sure I'll shell out that much money to order a book I've only seen small samples of (nice as the samples might be).

 

[davewoodrum]

I'm not too upset at the cost due to the book's size... but my question is this... roughly how many creatures?
(or has this been already posted elsewhere?)

 

[Cergorach]

@John&Will:
No offense guys, but do you really expect that the largest part of your customer base is going to care that you pay your writers more? I think not! Most people turn a blind eye to child labor when they go shopping, do you really think that they are going to care wheter a 30 year old geek that still lives in his parents basement (;-)is not receiving the amount of money you guys think (t)he should receive?

Lets not forget, the consumer dictates what prices are acceptable and what are not, because it's pretty easy, if you think it's to expensive you don't buy it. But the consumer has another problem, if they can't get it easily, they won't buy it. Here in lies the problem, because Atlas just doesn't have the penetration that companies such as WotC or WW and affiliates have. Even a distribution group such as Osseum has a better penetration than Atlas (atleast in my (limeted) experience).

Then there is the retailer, although Atlas isn't an unknown name, it doesn't have the name recognition or popularity that some other D20 companies have. Thus they have to fight for shelf space and retailer budget (what did you think? that retailers had lots of money to spend? ;-) Guess what happens when the local retailers checks his order form for ordering this months new D20 releases and he has only a limited amount of expendables available? Yup the most expensive product with the least name recognition goes. And lets be honest The Bestiary ain't cheap!

I dig the art of the Infiltrator, but these two 'monsters' didn't scream BUY at me, maybe others think otherwise. The preview of The Monsternomicon on the other hand did scream BUY, as did the Eden monsterbook, too bad that the first isn't really available locally and neither is second, too bad...

Now don't get me wrong, i'm saying that it's bad, but it's size isn't really a big selling point at this price. Neither is trying to 'scare' us by telling that the book smells. Pointing out that you paid your staff decently doesn't mean squat to the average consumer. A "sorry guys, but this was the best we could do." is so much more appropriate, it still won't change the fact that it's expensive, but it's pretty direct ;-)

Good luck guys!

[edit]
ps. it might get you more customers if you made a promo pdf with all the creatures listed by name and CR and for each creature a single line of text that 'explains' the creature. I know it's a bit more work than posting a couple of pages directly from the book, both it would give people a bit more general feel of the book (and appropriateness for their campaign)...
[/edit]

 

[JohnNephew]

I'm not too upset at the cost due to the book's size... but my question is this... roughly how many creatures?
(or has this been already posted elsewhere?)

More than 200 monsters and templates, I know. Each entry is at least 1 page; some multi-page entries have more than one monster, though. (E.g., I just proofed the Court of the Pale King, which has two critters -- the Pale King and the Hounds of Arawn, plus the description of Arawn as a new deity.) I'm not sure if we have a final tally somewhere...

 

[JoeGKushner]

Sounds like it's going to be another book, like Tome of Horrors, that gets a decent workout at my table.

I hate to say it, but as a GM, most of the books I wind up using are monster books. Sure, all the PrCs, Feats and other goodies are nice for the occassional NPC who needs to be something special, but monsters are the meat and potatos of the combat encounters where I need stuff.

Hey John, need any more swaps? I take it you got the last batch in good shape? I've still got some d20 goods that you mentioned you were interested in swapping for. Hell, I'd even send it now to reserve a copy.