Penumbral Lord, Anyone Played One?

[Oni]

I wanted to make sure, but according to the way in which the Penumbral Lord is written it only gains two spells with each level in the same manner a wizard does. that means a first level Penumbral Lord who wants to make use of all of his new spell slots has one 0th level spell and one 1st level spell. Combine this with the fact you need 7-8 levels of another spellcasting class just to qualify as far as I can tell, despite the PrC's claims to the contrary, a Penumbral Lord will never pull ahead in the level or power of spell he can cast in his specialty. I'm beginning to think that the spellcasting prowess of Penumbral Lord is a sham and that a straight wizard can do almost anything they can do, and most likely sooner and better. A Wizard7/Penumbral Lord5 can cast 4th level spells at highest in both of his classes. While a Wizard12 can cast 6th level spells. While some, but not all, of the Penumbral Lord's spells are listed as a level lower than their wizard counter parts they still fall behind, even in the specialty, and never really ever pull even with the spellcasting prowess of a straight wizard, even in their specialty. A by the time a Penumbral Lord reaches his one 9th level spell, a straight wizard will have reached the ability to cast 9th level spell, and will be able to cast a wider variety and often and two greater affect (after all the sole Penumbral Lord 9th level spell requires the expenditure of 5000xp). If the Penumbral Lord stays dedicated enough to reach its one 9th level spell then they will have given up the caster level necessary to make full use of their shadowcast ability, and in fact they must either give up their 9th level spell slot, or their ability to cast 6th level wizard spells (for shadowcast) unless they are able to break into epic levels. While the idea of the Penumbral Lord is cool, upon closer examination I'm thinking that the class is far to weak to be able to work well in a game with other characters of a similar level, as they will be quite simply, outclassed.

 

[Grraf]

Posts have been flying fast and furious so I think Oni probably posted without looking through my post.

Basically it works like this:
The Penumbral lord takes a bit of a hit in terms their magical advancement as they enter the class.
If measure power of a class in terms of number and spells castable on a table then the PL does look horribly weak.

Learning Shadow magic takes something out of the character. THey basically relearn spell casting gaining only a few new spells of lower power as they learn to channel the shadow.
However from about 5th level on Penumbral lords begin to ramp up sharply... and their spell casting prowess becomes unmatched.

However a player playing a PL like an Evocation-specialist-sorc-battle-tank type will probably never realize the true potency of the PL.

One of my 5th level wizards recently slaughtered a CR 7 creature in two rounds. (it was actually the final encounter in the first chapter of the bane warrens). He cast haste and fly, then hit the fellow with magic missles.
The crippling flaw of magic users is running out of spells. The PL, properly played, lacks this restriction.

Your regular level wizard does get higher level spells more often. The most appropriate spell isn't aways the highest level one. Though its been improved since 2nd ed a lot of powerful & key combat spells are lower level.

Think about it. As long as they have been in gloomy conditions (remember that the descriptions of PL only says that the PL has to be in darkness WHEN THE SPELL IS CAST the target can be outside even) every one of the PLs companions (say 10 bugbears? 5 hill giants? even 20 goblins?) has bulls strength and cats grace. The PL does too, just because. The PL learns MM maximized as a third level spell. Every round that he or she is near darkness thats 25 points of damage. You can try to dispell the darkness but the PL can just gloom and slip away.
And come back again in a half and hour and do it again.
A PL is always hasted unless they're surprised. They always can cast Shield. They can always summon another monster.

And we're talking about a couple of spells: they know more spells, they have other equipment. If someone uses a light spell they're probably ready with wands, allies who cast darkness.
Just because its suddenly light they can still cast spells, fight, use items and get away.

This isn't a shadow mage. Its not a "wizard with something different". Its a completely different type of caster, with a completely different style.
A well played Penumbral Lord is like a Sorceror on crack. Infinite spells, hordes of perpetually buffed minions and the abilty to slip away and fight again later.

I'm not saying that its the only good shadow-magic based class. If you want to play a shadow wizard I'd play a specialist mage, drop one school and give yourself all the specialist bonuses with any spell with the Shadow discriptor. That's cool.

But the PL is powerful enough already that I'd take a lot of convincing before a player could talk me into even thinking about playing one.

ijou

 

[Oni]

A Penumbral Lord's spells are hardly infinite, each spell they shadowcast deals them damage 1/level of the spell if it is from the Penumbral Lord Spell list and 2/level if it is not. If you do the amount of casting your talking about, your character will quickly drop over dead. Shadowcast is nice in a pinch, but beyond that I see its usefulness being limited.

Just now looking at it again I'm seeing something else. Due to the seperate spell progressions their caster levels are down the tubes. If a Wizard9 cast Dar'Tan's Shadow Bolt then he will deal 9d6 damage, if a Wizard7/Penumbral Lord2 cast the same spell he will only do 2d6 damage, this situation of course also extends to duration. Hardly what one would expect from the supposed masters of shadow magic in the Scarred Lands. Their caster level for beating SR is terrible, and their magic is easily dispelable even by low level characters.


When I first read the class I thought that it sounded really cool and I love the idea behind the class, but everytime I go back and look at it I find myself more and more unimpressed with how it was constructed. The class is in need of a complete overhaul and a professional company ought to be ashamed for letting something like that out the door without more thought.

 

[Nightfall]

This is what I'd do to fix Shadowcasting. Basically, instead of taking damage, they have to roll Concentration checks for each spell they cast. (DC 10+spell level) If it's a non-arcane spell or a spell outside their normal spellcasting class the DC is (15+the spell's level) A failed check means the spell doesn't go off and the cast takes that many points of actual damage.

Also at 3rd level the DCs for their spells with the shadow descriptor are +2. This stacks with shadow casting in gloom. Also their effective levels stack for purposes of overcoming spell resistance but only for that.

That help some Oni?