People actually play as BARDS???

[Shapermc]

HA! I got your attention!

Well I need advice and anyone comming in here to defend my Subj will know about the topic at hand.

I have never played a bard in a game nor anyone in my group. I have a few questions (prettymuch 2 of them) and any help will be greatfully appreciated.

1) What is the best way to usilise a bard for combat?

1.5) [this tie's in with one] Bard song in the PHB to me does not seem well defined. Can I start singing a bard song and then break off from it cast a bard spell then go back to singing, and as long as it has not been more than 5 turns all the friendly's in ear shot still keep the effects?

2) Which is better the PHB bard or Monte Cooks bard?

2.5) [another tie in] Where can I find Monte Cook's bard online (or which book did he publish it in)?

Now I am going for a bard in my next campeign because I feel that our gaming group has had alot of tension (not alot of combat and the DM strung us along on a Red Herring mission for 3 saturdays). I figured that a bard would be a nice team oriented character, and I get to accessorise I am starting on 15th level (I hate that my gaming group always starts characters after 10th level). Any other tips would be greatly appreciated as well.

 

[mooby]

1) Get yourself a bow, and start boosting your buddies' morale.

2)I don't know anything about the MC bard. I really like the PhB one, though. It does deserve 6 skill points, though.

 

[DDK]

HA! I got your attention!

Well I need advice and anyone comming in here to defend my Subj will know about the topic at hand.

I have never played a bard in a game nor anyone in my group. I have a few questions (prettymuch 2 of them) and any help will be greatfully appreciated.

You dirty little troll!

As far as game mechanics goes, I suggest using some of the feats in Song & Silence. Extra Music, Lingering Song, Requiem, Disguise Spell and Subsonics are all pretty decent feats that extend the bard's abilities.

However, I'd also recommend something on a roleplaying level. Most bard players tend to struggle with the whole Perform skill and it's execution in the game. For that, I would recommend you simply look to the campaign setting. It's obvious, I know, but most players don't seem to get it. Take, for instance, the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer. Simply flip to a random page and start reading a random paragraph. If you like what you see or are interested in any way, find the start and read from there, otherwise flip to another page. As you're reading through whatever it is, actually think about the STORIES within the paragraphs. Extract from them and use them in game.

For instance, flip to page 139 of the Gazetteer. Read 'Burneal Forest'.

Burneal Forest: The Burneal Forest stretches for hundreds of miles, from the shore of the Dramidj Ocean to the bogs of Blackmoor. This sprawling realm of pines and firs harbors great northern elk, giant deer and other game, tempting Wolf and Tiger Nomads to hunt there. Little-known Flan savages called the Uirtag dwell in the interior, living in huts made of green boughs in the brief summer and in burrows dug into the ground during the long, cold winter. A few Chakji tribes on the forests' western fringe trade with Tiger Nomads and inhabitants of the Land of Black Ice (see Tiger Nomads).

From that, you can then, sometime later, say something along the lines of, "Ahh yes, much like the Flan of the Burneal, we shall create arbors out of the living trees..." or whatever.

Adds loads of spice to a game and makes your character more than just, "Umm... so, what did I get on my Bardic Knowledge roll?"

Just a thought.

 

[MerricB]

The Monte Cook bard has 6 skill points per level, making it automatically better than the original bard. I'm not sure of the magic (spellsong) system it uses, however.

You can find it in the Book of Eldritch Might II.

Cheers!

 

[Shapermc]

Re: Re: People actually play as BARDS???

Adds loads of spice to a game and makes your character more than just, "Umm... so, what did I get on my Bardic Knowledge roll?"

So .... umm what did I get for my Bardic Knowledge roll?

None the less, unfortunatly my gaming group never makes those rolls they go on that kind of stuff. Like... "How many ranks you got in X skill?"

"Ummm 5... "

"Ok so what did you say?"

"Well I tried to convince the king that he needs to keep us on his payroll because we think that he faked his death."

"The king things it is a good idea."

"Really? You want me to roll for that?"

"Nahhhh."

[/me is still looking for an answer on that 1.5 question]

 

[DDK]

1) What is the best way to usilise a bard for combat?

Sing from the rear with a bow. Sing on the first round of every combat 'cause even if you don't keep it up, it lasts for five rounds after you stop. As many people will know, combats don't tend to last more than 10 rounds so this is a significant benefit that is easily gained and gained by everyone friendly to the bard within hearing distance... people underestimate this ability, I think. Get Leadership and a load of henchmen and then see how far your +1/+1, +2 goes...

1.5) [this tie's in with one] Bard song in the PHB to me does not seem well defined. Can I start singing a bard song and then break off from it cast a bard spell then go back to singing, and as long as it has not been more than 5 turns all the friendly's in ear shot still keep the effects?

Yeah, sure you can. But when you start singing again, it counts as another use of the ability which counts against your daily limit.

2) Which is better the PHB bard or Monte Cooks bard?

Monte's bard is broken. Completely, utterly and irreversibly. Why people think he's such a good games designer when he puts out stuff like this, I'll never understand.

2.5) [another tie in] Where can I find Monte Cook's bard online (or which book did he publish it in)?

You can find it at his website (www.montecook.com). I don't recommend it.

 

[Douane]

Concerning the MC Bard:

a) It can be found in the "Book of Eldritch Might II:Songs and Souls of Power", available on www.RPGNow.com.

b) For a short overview, go here: Alternate MC Bard (Oh, and he has 6 skill points.)

c) For a short overview of available spellsongs, go here: MC Bard Spellsongs

d) Example of Spellsongs (In this case, additional ones not in the pdf): New Spellsongs


Hope this helps!

Folkert

 

[zorlag]

" quote:Originally posted by Shapermc
2) Which is better the PHB bard or Monte Cooks bard?


Monte's bard is broken. Completely, utterly and irreversibly. Why people think he's such a good games designer when he puts out stuff like this, I'll never understand."

What do you mean, Fourecks? I haven't run in many complaints about it... Please either elaborate why it is broken, or point a thread where subject is discussed. I'm extremely interested in hearing this...

Z.

 

[Shadowdancer]

If you're starting at 15th level, and your group allows Prestige Classes, take a look at the Shadowdancer PrC as a way to increase your Bard's usefulness and its combat abilities.

Otherwise, get a bow and lots of feats to boost your ability to use it. And use the feats in Song and Silence that boost your Bardic abilities.

But also take some offensive spells that increase their damage as your levels increase (<cough> Magic Missle <cough>).

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

A 15th level Bard...

Well, you have a nice spell selection, though make something of it - you don`t have to bother with "only powerful at low level" spells, and can directly take the best ones...
(One Cure spell, Cat`s Grace, Haste, Greater Magic Weapon are your friends, Magic Weapon and sleep are not.)
Consider taking Charm Monster (I believe it is a 4th level spell for Bards) ...

Elf Bards work really well, but they are not the only possible bard race - Dwarfes and Halforcs don`t fit well, but if you want to have an unusual bard, consider them. (Maybe Barbarian/Bard - a Skald? )
If you consider multiclassing, probably only Human or Half Elf are really useful - (Bard/Wizards are not exactly the best combination, I think), especially if you consider Bard/Rogue.
Remeber though, that you are still a "real" spellcaster, and all multiclass considerations that apply for spellcastesr do apply for you, too.

Decide if you prefer melee or ranged combat.
In ranged combat, Precise Shot is a must since you will have to fire in melee, and Rapid shot gives you a cheap extra attack.
In melee, I think it is a bittle more difficult to decide, but Improved Disarm might work well with whips as does Improved Trip, Dodge, Mobility and Spring Attack might save your ass, since you aren`t forced to stay toe to toe with your 15d6 for Hit Dice. (And if you are running around with your Wand of Cure LIght, it might also help you)
Weapon Finesse will probably be a must, though you could also play a High Strength Bard instead of a High Dex - (why always play "standard types")
(Speaking of Ability Scores, a high INT is nearly necessary if you want to have many good skills. But remember that nobody forces you max out every skill - the first benchmark is a +5 modifier, the second +10, and the next ones +15 and +20...)

For armor, consider Mithral Chain Shirt (the arcane spell failure chance is very low) or Mage Armor/Bracers of Armor.
Remeber that you can "Use Magic Devices" of all sorts, so Wands of Cure Light and Shield will help you and/or your group...
Cloak of Elvenkind (better: Robe of Blending - +15 Hide AND free Alter(?) Self at will, and you can use a Cloak of Charisma with it) and Boots of Elvenkind are nice additions. YOu can accompony the other party sneakers (Rogue), so he is not alone when stumbling on foes and traps..

Maybe some of the special magic instruments (see DMG) might be nice additions, though they are often not very powerful...

For Bardic Feats, I think most of them are not really necessary - you might consider Lingering Song (doubles the duration of your song). Extra Bardic Music is only really interesting if you multiclass your bard.
Spell Focus (Enchantment) might be more useful than anything else...

Since your charisma score will be very good, Leadership might do wonders if you fear that your character is not strong enough
(Your cohort should not be a complicated character like wizard or cleric, though - A Barbarian or Fighter might be the best...)

A nice possible background for a bard is (besides being the one with performance) Merchant or something like that... (maybe you should own a wagon or some pack animals)