People actually play as BARDS???

[Fenes 2]

A Bard/Duelist can also be a flashy and effective PC, and a highly mobile one at that, with few needs for magic items.

 

[Clay_More]

You should have seen my last bard. I was a 3 rd. lvl bard 3 lvl. Illusionist. The two of them actually go very well together and both benefit from high intelligence. The style of play for the two also mixes rather well, compared to some other wizard specialists. Enchanter could be cool too though.

But, in my opinion, a bard is most useful in a group with more than four players. Otherwise, they players can be a little stretched and in need of some real damage-dealers. Standard for a small group of four is 1-2 fighters, a cleric and a wizard. In my opinion, the first thing you get after that could be a rogue. If you are planning on making a bard, you are playing one of the most versatile classes, so do the following. See what they need in the group. If they have alot of fighters and no rogue, get high intelligence and dexterity if you can and learn some good rogue skills. Its all up to you

 

[Shapermc]

GREAT! Any more ideas?

 

[Pylar]

've played a few bards in my D&D carrier. One of the biggest challenges with bards (especially at higher level) is the fact that thier spell DCs are low, compaired to the typical spellcaster that uses feats to up their DCs. Focus on spells that buff yourself, and your party. Bull Strength, Haste and those types of spells make you useful to the party, and keep the Wizards/Clerics free to memorize damaging and healing type spells. Try to max out your perform skill. The higher level bardic music abilities require you to have a higher perform skill. Charisma is your key attirbute, but also try for a high intelligence score. You're modifier for Bardic Knowledge is based off of intelligence. I don't know how often a good roll on Bardic Knowledge helped to provide a key piece of information that has helped my party complete an adventure.

 

[The Sigil]

GREAT! Any more ideas?

With apologies for the shameless plug, you might really want to check out my PDF, the Enchiridion of Mystic Music - this really beefs up what you can do with your music abilities.
http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=134&

As far as other stuff goes:

1) What is the best way to usilise a bard for combat?

As others have mentioned, bards make great archers (in fact, bards can become Arcane Archers pretty darn quick). One of my own personal favorites, though, is to utilize the "mobile bard" with boots of striding and springing and/or a ring of jumping plus a whip (or, if you have Bastion Press' Alchemy & Herbalists, a Lash of Saumar). Teasing and annoying your enemies, while repeatedly leaping around them can do wonders.

Another idea is to have the bard act as sort of the "Field General" - coordinate the other PCs and step in to help where needed. I have seen bards used as the "reserve" for all situations, be it offensive spellslinging, healing the wounded, archery, or straight-up slugfests.

Finally (and this goes with some of the comments below), don't overlook the utility of one of the bard's exclusive skills, Use Magic Device. This allows a bard to "mimic" any other spellcaster, divine or arcane, and provides the party with someone who can ALWAYS use the stuff that you're prying off of dead bodies. A bard packing a wand of fireballs (and using Use Magic Device) is possibly more handy than a wizard or sorcerer, because he can also jump into melee or cast healing spells.

1.5) [this tie's in with one] Bard song in the PHB to me does not seem well defined. Can I start singing a bard song and then break off from it cast a bard spell then go back to singing, and as long as it has not been more than 5 turns all the friendly's in ear shot still keep the effects?

*Shameless plug* You'll find that bard songs are VERY well-defined in the EoMM (above).

However, the PHB does do a pretty good job defining them. A bard song lasts until the bard (a) stops singing, (b) attempts one of a certain set of actions (mostly magical actions such as casting a spell, completing a spell trigger item, etc.), or (c) is silenced. That the effects of the song may linger after the bard's song stops do not affect this definition.

By the example you gave above, when you start your song, you use one of your "music" uses for the day. The benefit lasts as long as you continue singing. When you cast the spell, the song is over. The benefits may last for a few more rounds, but you have effectively ended the song. You can't "pick it up" after casting the spell; rather, you may only "start a new one" (using another daily use of your music ability).

Think of the effect of inspire courage, for instance, as "Concentration plus 5 rounds." IOW, time is counted off as follows:

Step A: If the character is Concentrating, the effect continues and you should return to Step A next round. Otherwise, go to step B.
Step B: The effect lasts for 5 more rounds. Return to step B next round and decrement the number (from 5 to 4, from 4 to 3, etc). If this number is zero, end the effect.

So once your Concentration is broken, you start applying time to the 5 rounds - you can't pick it up again because you're no longer taking time out of the "Concentration" portion of the spell.

2) Which is better the PHB bard or Monte Cooks bard?

IMO, the PHB bard. Monte's bard DOES get 6 skill points - but look what he gives up...
Instead of two abilities (music plus spellcasting) he gets all his abilities lumped into one (spellsongs). He is now MUCH more vulnerable to silence spells (a PHB bard can use the Silent Spell Feat to cast spells where he's silenced, even if his songs won't work). Furthermore, he loses the ability to use scrolls as easily (as the spells on the scrolls are no longer on his class list - no more having the bard carry scrolls of Cure Light Wounds if there is no cleric or if the cleric goes down). I myself think that with just three "levels," spellsongs make for a LESS flexible character, not more.

Just my 2 cents.

--The Sigil

 

[F5]

Another bit of advice about multiclassing and bards...

The bard is one of the few classes whose abilities aren't based solely on class level. Remember that the Perform skill is the base for what you can do with your Bardic Music. If you multiclass into, say, a rogue, you can take Perform as a skill and continue to progress with new bard-song abilities as fast as you would have with a full bard. You can't perform as many times a day as a single-classed bard, and you're giving up spell levels to do it, but it's kind of a neat trick.

As a 15th level bard, taking some levels of Shadowdancer is a fun way to go, and definitely focus on useful buff-spells, rather than straight-out damage dealers. I've seen two bards played in my group so far, and they were at their best when acting as buff-factories, and sniping with ranged weapons.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Personally, I don't think the MC bard is broken. There are certain ways to break it, but then there are ways to break a lot of things, such as the Persistent Spell feat, etc. So long as your players aren't looking for ways to munchkin the class, it's a decent and original alternative to the PHB one.

But if you're starting at 15th-level, I'd seriously take a look at the Virtuoso PrC from Song and Silence. The thing was built for bards, and offers a lot of bennies for very few disadvantages.

 

[WayneLigon]

(a PHB bard can use the Silent Spell Feat to cast spells where he's silenced, even if his songs won't work).

I have always assumed the PHB Bard could not take that feat.

[Edit] Aha! The reason I always assumed that was because it specifically says under the feat that Bard spells are not enhanced with this feat

 

[Stalker0]

Whatever you think of Monte's bard, at least the man is trying to give bards an original flavor, and in that aspect I think he does an excellent job.

I would definately pick up modify memory, its one of the few unique bard spells thats just so cool.

Learn to use the power of fascinate. Remember the DC to resist is your PERFORM CHECK, which for bards gets huge. As long as you fascinate before the enemy knows to be hostile to you, it should work by the book, and allows you to get by some tough encounters with ease.

Leadership is a good feat to pick up.

 

[Silver Griffon]

see also:
http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38157

Any input on my following comments in the above thread:

Slightly OT: Coreyartus describes the bard as a "jack of all trades" which most of us, myself included, expect to be true. But the more I think about it the more I am convinced that this is a hold-over from 2e. The Rogue is now the jack of all trades and the bard is now highly specialized as a performer. Think about it. There is no longer a specialized "thief" class. The rogue can be any kind of character playing by his own rules. They are able to fill the roles of scout, fighter, investigator, even spellcaster (Use Magic Device). The bard entertains and influences people. The only thing that really screams "jack of all trades" about the bard is his eclectic spell list. The rogue has taken over that niche in 3e. It does bother me that barbarians have as many skill points as bards. I know in this system that those points are also used for climbing, swimming, survival, etc. But it still doesn't feel right. However, it must be pointed out that the bard does already get enough points to max out 3 +Int mod skills in addition to Perform at first level. Not too shabby if you buy my argument that the rogue has supplanted them in the jack of all trades department. If only they would clear up this whole Bardic Knowledge thing we would know how many of those skill points to put into Knowledge skills...

see also also:
http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37898

I never realized how controversial bards were before!
edited for spelling error due to brain damage