Per-encounter Simple-Complex-Exotic Magic System for d20?
- Thread starter Henry
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Henry
Autoexreginated
I would almost think they'd have to be defined not just by overall mechanical effect, but by power level relative to the caster; to a level 1 wizard, ALL spells are complex or greater, or something like that, because by defnition the simple spells are going to need to not be combat-enders by themselves, though still effective, but that's just me. I don't want to color it too much by my expectations... 
Wulf Ratbane
Adventurer
I'm still on the fence as to whether certain spells can change complexity based on whose spell list they appear on-- for example, healing might be complex for clerics and exotic for bards.
However, my internal devil's advocate tells me that not only is a single ubiquitous classification simpler to play, but also that what makes a spell complex or exotic is generally going to be its game-breaky-ness, and game-breaky-ness really isn't something that cares too much what class wields the power. It's either broken or not.
However, my internal devil's advocate tells me that not only is a single ubiquitous classification simpler to play, but also that what makes a spell complex or exotic is generally going to be its game-breaky-ness, and game-breaky-ness really isn't something that cares too much what class wields the power. It's either broken or not.
Wulf Ratbane
Adventurer
First Thoughts
Knowing and Readying a Spell
[adapted from Monte Cook’s Arcana Unearthed]
Before a spellcaster of any kind can cast a spell, the player must determine which spells he knows and has readied.
Simple, Complex, and Exotic Spells
Simple spells are the most common and/or the easiest to cast; magical power is simply predisposed to take certain channels.
In addition, for the purposes of our discussion, simple spells are also those spells whose repeated casting is least injurious to game/story balance. This includes most combat spells, such as damaging spells and short-duration buffs.
[For my purposes, I consider a simple spell almost any spell I could create with the spell templates I proposed in HOHF: Elves. These are spells with a very basic, intuitive template, unique from school to school, that scale almost linearly with spell level.]
Complex spells require a real understanding of the fundamental underpinnings of magic. Learning and casting a complex spell requires dedicated magical study. In addition, for the purposes of our discussion, complex spells are those spells whose repeated casting, either in or out of combat, is problematic for game/story balance. It will usually include spells with long durations that might last from one encounter to the next. [It also includes spells that you just might not want cast in rapid-fire fashion.]
Exotic spells are the rarest and most complicated spells of all. For the purposes of our discussion, an exotic spell is any spell that is almost guaranteed to be detrimental to game/story balance if it is not strictly limited to one casting per day.
Clerics automatically know (and may ready) all simple and complex divine spells, and all spells in their two chosen domains.
Druids automatically know (and may ready) all simple divine spells and all spells in the air, earth, fire, water, animal, and plant domains. [Or something like that…]
[I think it’s still worthwhile to divide divine and arcane magic. I’d classify all spells that are common to both clerics and druids as simple spells with the exception of the cure spells—but they are a special case. I’ll treat them separately. Without looking at the spell lists I’m not certain this is workable. First draft and all that!]
Wizards begin play with knowledge of a limited number of spells, but may learn additional spells of any complexity by adding spells to their spellbook. There is no limit to the number of spells a wizard may know.
Bards and sorcerers (and ranger and paladins…) have a much more limited knowledge of spells. As they level up, they learn additional spells, but they are strictly limited in the maximum number of spells they know. It is no more difficult for a bard or sorcerer to learn a complex or exotic spell as opposed to a simple spell, but they do enjoy certain advantages over spell-preparation types when casting (and refreshing) simple spells.
Readying Spells
All casters must ready spells before they cast them. This means choosing a subset of spells from their list of spells known that they will have access to until they are able to ready new spells. Once a spell is readied, it does not become unreadied except under special circumstances.
Readying spells requires a fresh mental state (usually requiring eight hours of uninterrupted rest) and one hour of study or comtemplation.
A Divergence from Arcana Unearthed
Spell slots: They’re gone. Sort of. When you cast a readied spell, the spell is not unreadied; however, it becomes expended and cannot be cast again until it is refreshed.
Using Spell Cards
The easiest way to play a spellcaster is with the use of spell cards. Take each spell that you know, and put it on an index card. When you ready spells each day, take each spell card out of your Spells Known pile and put it face up in front of you, in your Spells Readied “hand.”
When you cast one of your readied spells, turn the card face down. That spell cannot be cast again until it is refreshed. [Ideally, the back of your spell card also has the spell name and complexity printed on it… so you know how easy it is to refresh…]
When you cast an exotic spell, the spell is not only expended, it is no longer readied, and cannot be readied again until the next time you ready spells. If you ready an exotic spell, know that you will only be able to cast it one time per day, until the next time you ready your spells.
[I'm somewhat torn here as there's no easy way to allow someone to cast two exotic spells per day-- possible under the current "spell slot, spell prep" format. Maybe that's a good thing? But I wouldn't want someone to use a duplicate spell card... I don't think...]
Refreshing Spells
First and foremost, all expended simple spells are refreshed at the end of any encounter. Complex spells do not refresh at the end of an encounter. [It is for this reason that spells that are not particularly suited to combat encounters should probably be complex—that’s going to include most long-duration buffs, to prevent casters from freely buffing the entire party.]
There are, however, a number of other specific ways that casters can refresh their spells:
A spontaneous caster can refresh one simple spell (even during an encounter) as a standard action. [I can envision a feat, or even a skill check, that allows them to do this as a move action…]
A spontaneous caster can refresh any spell by expending another spell of the same or higher level.
Any caster can instantly refresh all of their expended spells (at any time) by spending an action point.
Any caster can refresh one complex spell by spending 10 minutes of quiet rest and reflection. [So… this means a caster could buff an entire party of four in 40 minutes: cast bull’s strength or what have you; rest to refresh the complex spell; cast again; repeat. You could extend the base unit to 15 minutes of rest to extend this to a nice, round hour.]
Converting the Classes to this Format
Bard: The bard’s spells per day goes away. The bard’s Spells Known becomes, also, his Spells Readied Per Day. At 1st level, add the “Spontaneous Caster” ability to the bard (which simply signifies that he is a spontaneous caster, and may be important in interation with existing feats, prestige classes, etc.).
Cleric: The cleric’s spells per day becomes his Spells Readied Per Day.
Druid: The druid’s spells per day becomes his Spells Readied Per Day.
Sorcerer: The sorcerer’s spells per day goes away. Spells Known becomes Spells Readied Per Day. At 1st level, add the “Spontaneous Caster” ability to the sorcerer (which simply signifies that he is a spontaneous caster).
Wizard: The wizard’s spells per day becomes his Spells Readied Per Day. At 1st level, add “Arcane Spell Preparation” to the wizard, which simply distinguishes him from the spontaneous casters.
Knowing and Readying a Spell
[adapted from Monte Cook’s Arcana Unearthed]
Before a spellcaster of any kind can cast a spell, the player must determine which spells he knows and has readied.
Simple, Complex, and Exotic Spells
Simple spells are the most common and/or the easiest to cast; magical power is simply predisposed to take certain channels.
In addition, for the purposes of our discussion, simple spells are also those spells whose repeated casting is least injurious to game/story balance. This includes most combat spells, such as damaging spells and short-duration buffs.
[For my purposes, I consider a simple spell almost any spell I could create with the spell templates I proposed in HOHF: Elves. These are spells with a very basic, intuitive template, unique from school to school, that scale almost linearly with spell level.]
Complex spells require a real understanding of the fundamental underpinnings of magic. Learning and casting a complex spell requires dedicated magical study. In addition, for the purposes of our discussion, complex spells are those spells whose repeated casting, either in or out of combat, is problematic for game/story balance. It will usually include spells with long durations that might last from one encounter to the next. [It also includes spells that you just might not want cast in rapid-fire fashion.]
Exotic spells are the rarest and most complicated spells of all. For the purposes of our discussion, an exotic spell is any spell that is almost guaranteed to be detrimental to game/story balance if it is not strictly limited to one casting per day.
Clerics automatically know (and may ready) all simple and complex divine spells, and all spells in their two chosen domains.
Druids automatically know (and may ready) all simple divine spells and all spells in the air, earth, fire, water, animal, and plant domains. [Or something like that…]
[I think it’s still worthwhile to divide divine and arcane magic. I’d classify all spells that are common to both clerics and druids as simple spells with the exception of the cure spells—but they are a special case. I’ll treat them separately. Without looking at the spell lists I’m not certain this is workable. First draft and all that!]
Wizards begin play with knowledge of a limited number of spells, but may learn additional spells of any complexity by adding spells to their spellbook. There is no limit to the number of spells a wizard may know.
Bards and sorcerers (and ranger and paladins…) have a much more limited knowledge of spells. As they level up, they learn additional spells, but they are strictly limited in the maximum number of spells they know. It is no more difficult for a bard or sorcerer to learn a complex or exotic spell as opposed to a simple spell, but they do enjoy certain advantages over spell-preparation types when casting (and refreshing) simple spells.
Readying Spells
All casters must ready spells before they cast them. This means choosing a subset of spells from their list of spells known that they will have access to until they are able to ready new spells. Once a spell is readied, it does not become unreadied except under special circumstances.
Readying spells requires a fresh mental state (usually requiring eight hours of uninterrupted rest) and one hour of study or comtemplation.
A Divergence from Arcana Unearthed
Spell slots: They’re gone. Sort of. When you cast a readied spell, the spell is not unreadied; however, it becomes expended and cannot be cast again until it is refreshed.
Using Spell Cards
The easiest way to play a spellcaster is with the use of spell cards. Take each spell that you know, and put it on an index card. When you ready spells each day, take each spell card out of your Spells Known pile and put it face up in front of you, in your Spells Readied “hand.”
When you cast one of your readied spells, turn the card face down. That spell cannot be cast again until it is refreshed. [Ideally, the back of your spell card also has the spell name and complexity printed on it… so you know how easy it is to refresh…]
When you cast an exotic spell, the spell is not only expended, it is no longer readied, and cannot be readied again until the next time you ready spells. If you ready an exotic spell, know that you will only be able to cast it one time per day, until the next time you ready your spells.
[I'm somewhat torn here as there's no easy way to allow someone to cast two exotic spells per day-- possible under the current "spell slot, spell prep" format. Maybe that's a good thing? But I wouldn't want someone to use a duplicate spell card... I don't think...]
Refreshing Spells
First and foremost, all expended simple spells are refreshed at the end of any encounter. Complex spells do not refresh at the end of an encounter. [It is for this reason that spells that are not particularly suited to combat encounters should probably be complex—that’s going to include most long-duration buffs, to prevent casters from freely buffing the entire party.]
There are, however, a number of other specific ways that casters can refresh their spells:
A spontaneous caster can refresh one simple spell (even during an encounter) as a standard action. [I can envision a feat, or even a skill check, that allows them to do this as a move action…]
A spontaneous caster can refresh any spell by expending another spell of the same or higher level.
Any caster can instantly refresh all of their expended spells (at any time) by spending an action point.
Any caster can refresh one complex spell by spending 10 minutes of quiet rest and reflection. [So… this means a caster could buff an entire party of four in 40 minutes: cast bull’s strength or what have you; rest to refresh the complex spell; cast again; repeat. You could extend the base unit to 15 minutes of rest to extend this to a nice, round hour.]
Converting the Classes to this Format
Bard: The bard’s spells per day goes away. The bard’s Spells Known becomes, also, his Spells Readied Per Day. At 1st level, add the “Spontaneous Caster” ability to the bard (which simply signifies that he is a spontaneous caster, and may be important in interation with existing feats, prestige classes, etc.).
Cleric: The cleric’s spells per day becomes his Spells Readied Per Day.
Druid: The druid’s spells per day becomes his Spells Readied Per Day.
Sorcerer: The sorcerer’s spells per day goes away. Spells Known becomes Spells Readied Per Day. At 1st level, add the “Spontaneous Caster” ability to the sorcerer (which simply signifies that he is a spontaneous caster).
Wizard: The wizard’s spells per day becomes his Spells Readied Per Day. At 1st level, add “Arcane Spell Preparation” to the wizard, which simply distinguishes him from the spontaneous casters.
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WhatGravitas
Explorer
Healing? Then we need a more precise definition first.Wulf Ratbane said:
If simple means easy to recover, then no healing there.
If complex means recoverable with a significant action (like 1 minute), but can be used a high number of times per day, then healing shouldn't belong there as well, or we'll get the "full rested at every fight"-syndrome.
Personally, I'd say - but these are, of course, very simple suggestions:
Simple: Can be prepared as a move action, just using your memory (i.e. all simple spells are always known). Spells that are not problematic, if used very often, can come in here.
Examples: Detect Magic, Warlock-like blasting, "commoner's magic" (lighting a fire, mending a tunic) - things on par with a very good skill roll (like short flight, like a 20 on a jump check) and so on.
Complex: Can pre prepared with ten minute of time, usually using some kind of focus (spellbook, holy scripture and so on) - things you allow basically very often, just not in fast succession, like fireballs, dispel magic, dimension doors, buffs measured in minutes or less, as well as low-key healing (like 1 hp ~ about 6 hp per hour) (because keeping these up would mean a considerable time investment in re-preparation), and similar powers - usually the stuff, that becomes "real magic", i.e. almost impossible to do without magic.
Exotic: Essentially - story magic. Teleport. Planar Binding. Plane Shift - the stuff, that you want to see once or twice per day, never more. Basically everything, that would completely break the "per day"-principle - this should include the more powerful healing spells. Should have a preparation times in hours, days or higer - perhaps a custom one for each spell.
Just my first impressions of it.
Wulf Ratbane
Adventurer
Why, yes, I am having a conversation with myself...
Here's where I think I'm going to lose Henry already.
Let's take fireball.
Surely we can agree it's not exotic.
So let's say it is, at its most exclusionary, complex.
That very interesting element of "Save my fireball, or use it now?" is gone. The caster knows he can use his fireball, even if complex, in every fight. He'll get it back with a bit of post-fight rest (circumstances willing).
I know that sounds like a bad thing, but in my mind it's really not that different from the way sorcerers play now. Sorcerers don't feel like they have to save their "big guns" in the way that wizards do.
So to me, this isn't a game breaking issue, as much as it is a "This is part of the fun of being a wizard..." issue.
On that subject, I don't recall if I posted this in the other thread, but here's a piece of an email conversation I had with my "wizard-playin' buddy":
Our wizard player responds... He's played a wizard now in two back-to-back campaigns; he seems a pretty typical wizard afficionado.
Here's where I think I'm going to lose Henry already.
Let's take fireball.
Surely we can agree it's not exotic.
So let's say it is, at its most exclusionary, complex.
That very interesting element of "Save my fireball, or use it now?" is gone. The caster knows he can use his fireball, even if complex, in every fight. He'll get it back with a bit of post-fight rest (circumstances willing).
I know that sounds like a bad thing, but in my mind it's really not that different from the way sorcerers play now. Sorcerers don't feel like they have to save their "big guns" in the way that wizards do.
So to me, this isn't a game breaking issue, as much as it is a "This is part of the fun of being a wizard..." issue.
On that subject, I don't recall if I posted this in the other thread, but here's a piece of an email conversation I had with my "wizard-playin' buddy":
Our wizard player responds... He's played a wizard now in two back-to-back campaigns; he seems a pretty typical wizard afficionado.
Dreadmoore Doom said:
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