D&D 5E (2024) Perception vs Investigation

[DragonLancer]

Okay... so, correct me if I am wrong here. I'm used to how the old D20 system handling perception. The perception skill was used for finding traps, secret doors, that journal hidden in the alchemists lab, whether you were being followed and spotting ambushes on the road ahead. D&D 5th adds the investigation skill which feels like it is used when asking questions around town, spending the day in the great library to find out the history of the mysterious tower or perusing the accounts ledges of the dodgy auction house.

A couple of players in one of my two 2024 campaigns have asked about using investigation to search rooms for secret doors, hidden treasure...etc, when they take their uninterrupted time rather than using perception. I get what they are saying, in that they have all the time they need to do so thus making investigation more appropriate, but my DM brain finds that clunky when perception already exists for that purpose. Even if I give them advantage for taking their time.

Thus far I have said yes, fine, but is this right and my brain is just stuck with concepts from an older edition?

 

[Xeviat]

I personally use investigation for active searching, so I would use it for searching for traps or secret doors. Stealth rolls against Passive Perception, and active Perception is used to notice hidden things. I'd let someone use Perception to notice that something is off, pointing them in the right direction of a secret door or trap, but I'd still require an Investigation check to figure out the trap and trigger.

5.5 groups things into actions. Look at the difference between the Study action and the Search action.

 

[Laurefindel]

The way I use them:

Perception = environmental awareness. Spot potential dangers such as ambush or traps before you walk into them.

Investigation = deliberate observation and analysis. Look for hidden doors, traps (along with how they are set off), and clues in general.

 

[AlViking]

From the 2024 PHB

• Investigation: Find obscure information in books, or deduce how something works.
• Perception: Using a combination of senses, notice something that’s easy to miss.

Along with actions you can take include Search and Study, with the details in the glossary.

• For search action uses perception to detect a hidden thing or object.
• The study action uses investigation in areas of traps, ciphers, riddles, and gadgetry.

So a lot of it is, as usual, left up to the DM. Basically instead of using perception to search they want to deduce where a hidden door logically might exist.

 

[DragonLancer]

Thanks. It is just me being stuck in the mechanics of an older system.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

Every published adventure I’ve read uses perception to notice traps. In my opinion, that makes perception too much of a catch-all. Therefore, I use investigation for finding traps and use perception for noticing ambushes and stuff.

I also use charisma investigation for gathering information

 

[GMMichael]

Perception = environmental awareness. Spot potential dangers such as ambush or traps before you walk into them.

Investigation = deliberate observation and analysis. Look for hidden doors, traps (along with how they are set off), and clues in general.

I like this, but I'm a little more harsh:

Perception: find a trap before setting it off.

Investigation: find a trap BY setting it off.

What's the exact definition? I combine the two into "Detect" and let the player do the defining.

 

[Charlaquin]

Okay... so, correct me if I am wrong here. I'm used to how the old D20 system handling perception. The perception skill was used for finding traps, secret doors, that journal hidden in the alchemists lab, whether you were being followed and spotting ambushes on the road ahead. D&D 5th adds the investigation skill which feels like it is used when asking questions around town, spending the day in the great library to find out the history of the mysterious tower or perusing the accounts ledges of the dodgy auction house.

A couple of players in one of my two 2024 campaigns have asked about using investigation to search rooms for secret doors, hidden treasure...etc, when they take their uninterrupted time rather than using perception. I get what they are saying, in that they have all the time they need to do so thus making investigation more appropriate, but my DM brain finds that clunky when perception already exists for that purpose. Even if I give them advantage for taking their time.

Thus far I have said yes, fine, but is this right and my brain is just stuck with concepts from an older edition?

Some DMs treat Perception like 3.Xe’s Spot, and Investigation like 3.Xe’s Search. I don’t think this was the original design intent, but eh if people like using it that way and do so consistently, more power to them.

Personally, I use Perception for detecting sensory information (which includes both searching and spotting), and Investigation for making logical deductions based on sensory information. In other words, Perception will tell you the brick work on the floor is uneven, and there are several small holes in the walls. Investigation will tell you that stepping on any of these twelve bricks will cause poison darts to shoot out of the holes, but covering the holes with something sufficiently dense first would likely cause the mechanism to jam. Or, if you don’t want to get into that degree of specific detail, Perception will find a trap or secret door, Investigation will tell you how to operate it.

 

[aco175]

I did notice these under Search and Study.

I also see this with searching for things.

I find that I tend to just have one search check, usually a Perception check to notice things, but Investigation for picking things up and opening drawers and poking and prodding things.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Because I always found 5E's Perception skill too overused in the beginning, I made a very switch very early on in all my campaigns that aligns with what some other folks have mentioned here:

Wisdom (Perception) is to find any living creature that has hidden themselves. They make a Dexterity (Stealth) check to hide... you make a Wisdom (Perception) check to find them.

Intelligence (Investigation) is to find any non-living object that someone had to spend time disguising or hiding from view. So traps and tripwires, secret doors, hidden compartments and the like.

I prefer this because it reduces Perception's overall use and it makes Investigation more useful more often. Plus I always thought it better that Rogues lean towards a higher Intelligence because they are often the ones who are trying to deduce things and solve puzzles and the like. Thus Clerics and Fighters focus towards Wisdom, Wizards and Rogues focus towards Intelligence.

My games have never had an issue using this system.