Permanency and Death

[Artoomis]

I think one should be very generous in adjudicating Permanency because it's exp costs are kinds high, mostly, compared to similar slotless wondrous items. The table is way off on the values - obviously, no real analysis was done making up the exp pt values for Permanency.

The below is a comparison of experience point cost of a slotless wondrous item (use activated or continuous) to Permanency’s cost.

XP = Spell Level x Caster Level x 2,000 x Duration Modifier x 2 (Slotless Modifier)/25

Spell Name		Item Experience Point Formula	Item XP		Perm XP
Arcane sight		(3 x 5 x 2,000 x 2 x 2)/25	4,800 XP	1,500 XP
Comprehend languages	(1 x 1 x 2000 x 1.5 x 2)/25	240 XP		500 XP
Darkvision		(2 x 3 x 2000 x 1 x 2)/25	960 XP		1,000 XP
Detect magic		(1/2 x 1 x 2000 x 2 x 2)/25	160 XP		500 XP
Read magic		(1/2 x 1 x 2000 x 1.5 x 2)/25	120 XP		500 XP
See invisibility	(2 x 3 x 2000 x 2 x 2)/25	2000 XP		1,000 XP
Tongues			(3 x 5 x 2000 x 1.5 x2)/25	3,600 XP	1,500 XP
Enlarge person		(1 x 1 x 2000 x 2 x 2)/25	320 XP		500 XP
Magic fang		(1 x 1 x 2000 x 2 x 2)/25	320 XP		500 XP
Magic fang, greater	(3 x 5 x 2000 x 1 x2)/25	2,400 XP	1,500 XP
Reduce person		(1 x 1 x 2000 x 2 x 2)/25	320 XP		500 XP
Resistance		(1/2 x 1 x 2000 x 2 x 2)/25	160 XP		500 XP

That's a fascinating table. I assumed that all are double price for slotless and are "always on" and applied the appropriate spell duration modifier.

 

[Black Knight Irios]

The most surpricing fact is that some items are even cheaper than making permanency do the job, assuming your table is correct.
But sometimes it is good to have items do the job, sometimes it is better to have the spells on oneself running.
I think the spells should be still there after the revivification. Baring the case when your body get's totally destroyed with Destruction but probably it is better to loose those permanent spells only to Mordenkainen's Dis. and Dispelling.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I believe that targeting is only important when the spell is cast.

Otherwise, you could break a charm spell by removing the line of effect to the caster (as the charmed creature would no longer be a valid target for the spell).

Well, no, a valid target is "one humanoid". Line of effect is certainly only required while casting. But once the spell is on the creature, the line of effect required would be from the spell to the creature, not from the caster to the creature.

However, how do you rule if the Charmed humanoid is Polymorphed into, say, a monstrous humanoid? He no longer fits the target description - one humanoid. Is he still Charmed?

(Levitate, Shillelagh, and Bless examples likely follow )

-Hyp.

 

[Black Knight Irios]

Well, you could either rule that the polymorphed one is not affected as long as his type is different from humanoid and the spell is surpressed for that duration, noting that that surpressed period counts towars the charm effetcs duration or that the charm effect will be negated entirely since the target is no longer valid.
I think the 2nd version given by me is correct!
Back to Permanency and Death. -Since most spells affect you, you could be even an object (a corpse is an obejct), this is getting rather weird and coplicated you could rule that even the object that 'was' you or still is you has those spell on it. -Still others have as target: creature touched.
But I think all those explanations are rather stupid in their own right. The permanent spells will fizzle away when you die. -But I think since those player's payed with their precious XPs for those permanent effects it would hurt them twice, losing XP due to death and having to recast those spells, so we should leave those spells running still on them. -It's only my opninion on that.
Maybe this will result in a houserule, but that bothers me not at all, but someone could clarify how it is written by the rules.