Permanent Righteous Might

[James McMurray]

Macbrea: No one said anything about using disjunction all the time. But at high levels of play, you have to expect it every now and then. Heck, my party just got Mordenkainen's Disjunction. I'm sure they'll be using it alot. Heck, I even house rules it to not make the caster immune, and it is still one of the most destructive high level spells.

-Can a cleric cast Righteos Might on himself and then have a wizard cast permanency on him.

-or does the character who wants to do this have to be at least a 9th lvl cleric/ 9thlevel wizard

-or can it be a 1st level cleric/ 9th level wizard with a scroll of righteos might.

-or is there a cleric domain that has permanency as one of its spells.

Just some foor for thought, or is it thought for food. Ah screw it.

Tata.

You have to cast both Permanency and the spell to be made permanent yourself. Either one of those can come from scrolls. A 1/9 level character could do it, but they may mess it up if they fail their caster level check. As for a domain, I don't know. The Time Domain from Forgotten Realms probably does. Anybody with that book care to let us know?

 

[Macbrea]

Yes, I realize how powerful Mord's Disjunctions is after running my game of death. What the spell means is that if A 16 - 20th level party runs into a wizard/sorceror every 4 encounters, they will possess no magic items by the end of the 13 encounter said to get you up one level.

Some spells are extremely powerful. Plane shift is another example of a spell that people wouldn't think would be super powerful. But creatures like the Mind flayer that can planeshift people they touch at will can quickly break up a party.

 

[James McMurray]

Of course, your assumption is that all of those wizards will know and have prepared Mordenkainen's Disjunction, which isn't likely to be the case given the sheer number of powerful 9th level spells available. Also, it does allow a will save, meaning that the party's cleric should be able to withstand it, along with the wizard. Guess it gives a good reason that those high-level characters should break away from the "attack / get attacked" routine and throw some grapples or readied actions in there every now and then.

But yes, there are some extremely powerful spells, with Disjunction being on the list.

 

[Archer]

There is a rule (proposed by Monte Cook I believe) that permanent spells are supressed for 1d4 rounds by a dispel magic like magic items. If you paid experience for something, it should not be able to be undone without a similar expenditure.

I personally would not let spells above 3rd level be made permanent on a person.

 

[kreynolds]

There is a rule (proposed by Monte Cook I believe) that permanent spells are supressed for 1d4 rounds by a dispel magic like magic items.

I've heard of it, but I don't recall Monte supporting it. I've only seen it kicked around here a few times and a concensus wasn't made.

I personally would not let spells above 3rd level be made permanent on a person.

I assume you have a reason. Or is it "just cause"?

 

[RogueJK]

You have to cast both Permanency and the spell to be made permanent yourself. Either one of those can come from scrolls. A 1/9 level character could do it, but they may mess it up if they fail their caster level check. As for a domain, I don't know. The Time Domain from Forgotten Realms probably does. Anybody with that book care to let us know?

Yes, it's the 5th level domain spell for the Time domain.

If you can't get the Time domain, a 9th level Cleric with the Magic domain would have a better chance with a scroll than a Cleric9/Wizard1.

 

[Al]

Well, if I were a self-respecting wizard, I'd prepared MKDJ. Heck, I might even take it if I were a sorceror. Taking out all the enemy party buffing spells and most of their magic items quickly distorts the odds in your favour...

But back on-topic, I would probably say that Righteous Might could be made permanent. I mean, theoretically, you could craft a magical item that granted you Permanent Righteous Might (although you'd probably be better off, XP and cost wise, to craft one that can cast Persistent RM once per day). The XP cost would be punitive though: probably as per crafting a permanent item, DOUBLED for not taking up a slot, with a little extra to circumvent gp cost and -25% since you can only use it on yourself. That's a pretty hefty price tag, and as kreynolds has said, one Dispel Magic and it's gone. Take the risk by all means, but seeing as you'll need to be at least capable of a 14th wizard caster level (min. caster level for permanency is 9+level of spell), and 9th cleric caster level, the XP cost prohibitive, 5 weeks research time required, one questions if it's even worth it.

 

[Malin Genie]

There is a rule (proposed by Monte Cook I believe) that permanent spells are supressed for 1d4 rounds by a dispel magic like magic items.

Interesting - I had just assumed that was the case. Permanent effect - therefore Dispel Magic supresses rather than destroys the effect.

I didn't realise that most people played that dispel could destroy a permanent effect...

 

[Corwin]

Interesting - I had just assumed that was the case. Permanent effect - therefore Dispel Magic supresses rather than destroys the effect.

I didn't realise that most people played that dispel could destroy a permanent effect...

Even though we also play it that permanencies are destroyed when dispelled as well, I think there are a few interesting sections in the spells' descriptions.

1) Under permanancy: "Spells cast on other creatures, objects, or locations (not on you) are vulnerable to dispel magic as normal."

2) Disapel Magic: "A dispelled spell ends as if its duration has expired."

But permanency's duration doesn't end...

It is also an interesting quirk to descibe a permanancied spell effect to be considered akin to the power of a magic item. So basically you are a walking, living magic item. Hmmm...

I just don't understand why the spell differentiates between permanant spells cast on yourself and those on others, places or objects. Odd.

 

[Larcen]

Interesting - I had just assumed that was the case. Permanent effect - therefore Dispel Magic supresses rather than destroys the effect.

I didn't realise that most people played that dispel could destroy a permanent effect...

I am with you, Malin. It has always seemed pretty clear to me too. A magical item is "permanent", and it only gets supressed temporarily...so why not a permanenced spell as well?

Also, about Mordy's Disjunction spell. I have often given that spell much thought since someday my cleric of Mystra will get it, and I have come to this conclusion: When I get it, I would never use unless it was an EXTREME situation, such as we are really getting our butts kicked by the magic buff/items of the opposing group. Why? Quite simply, I DONT WANT TO DESTROY THE SPOILS.

Sounds silly, I know. But look at it this way, for the most part, the party WILL win the battle, the adventure is usually "designed" for them to win. Again, for the most part. So why then destroy all the goodies the opposing team has? If the opposing party is anywhere near your level, expect them to have some really nice stuff. No way would I destroy it unless it was a matter of life and death. Ultimately, I think my cleric will one day use the 9th level domain slot for a persistent SR instead.

Oh yeah, another reason my PC wouldn't use it is for roleplaying purposes. He feels, as a cleric of Mystra, that magic should be preserved not destroyed. Which is kinda weird since TWO of the Goddess of Magic's domains have this Disjunction spell. It says in the FRCS book that Mystra encourages the creation of new magical items and spells. Why would she want her clerics to go around snuffing them out as well? (My guess is that is was done for flavor...to show the command these powerful cleric's have over magic in general.)