Pet Peeves....

How closely treasure values are tied into Chalenge Rating. A nice guide on changing minster challeng ratings based on magic item availability would go a long way to solving this, since the CR of every monster assumes a by the book allotment of a fairly high magic world.

I've actually gotten into arguments with my DM about this, because I'll mention that we don't have very many magic items for our level, and then he'll throw us up against an appropriate CR bad guy and we'll get our butts handed to us, but he thinks I'm being a power gamer who wants a lot of magic items. I'd actually prefer a lower magic game, but he won't admit that items are a balancing factor for several classes.
 
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Severe overuse of magic items in 3e! Not only does this turn you into a Christmas tree and force you to account gold way too much*, but it also makes designing NPCs, as well as PCs above 1st-level, a brutal PitA.

It also seriously weakens classed NPCs that aren't spellcasters (while NPC spellcasters would love more gear, at least they can dish out all their spells during and right before an encounter, often making them overpowered).

* This falls in squarely with the amount of treasure you have to hand out in 3e. Even if you hand out the massive amounts of treasure "correctly" in 3e, a lot of it's value is lost when it gets sold. Most of the time you find treasure that's not worth it. (Ooh... I have a +2 battleaxe, so I guess this +1 shortspear is kind of pointless.) This tends to hurt non-spellcasting PCs, too, since even with the huge amount of incoming $ they're not actually getting enough.

It starts to resemble Diablo or Angband at lower levels... you don't run home because you're hurt, you run home because you can't carry more gear! You don't have to do this at higher level because everyone has their own portable hole.

From all of the clearly 3e books I read (eg Erevis Cale Trilogy, part 1, where they specifically mention the term shadow adept) the heroes are not covered in magic items. In fact, an evil mage is surprised when his obviously high-level minions have magic on them... turns out they've each got a solitary magic ring!

In 2e, treasure used to be a reward, but in 3e it's a necessity! I don't dare hand out extra treasure as a reward, since that will just cause balance problems down the road :( And handing out less treasure, which I'd like to do, also causes game balance problems.

Mages go from hero to zero... without spells they're so weak and pathetic, and of course you will run out of spells sometime. Mage defensive spells are often all-or-nothing, with greater invisibility being the worst offender. I often spread beaded or gauze curtains around my castles to keep invisible mages... well, somewhat visible. If a mage has that spell up they're nearly unstoppable, especially in the open when the mage is flying and using nondetection (the better to avoid potions of see invisibility that smart fighters carry) the wizard totally dominates (very bad with an NPC mage)... on the other hand, a lot of mage defenses just suck. Fire shield and any attempt to boost AC past the low levels without changing your shape are usually too weak. Mirror image is, IMO, the best all-round defense spell a wizard can get - not too strong, not too weak either. I'd also love to see mages get some spells that defend themselves against magic (say, a balanced version of the elven mantle spell).

Class skills (D20 Modern to the rescue again) are often ... lame. Fighters don't get Spot, for instance, so past a few levels there's no point of taking the skill, since the rogue is pretty much guaranteed to get past you no matter what you roll. (In Modern, several occupations can give you Listen and Spot as class skills.)

Last but not least, I hate how so much of your AC is based on magic items. Even if you're a rogue your AC probably rises more because of magic items (including Dex-boosting items) than because of your own character abilities. Many other characters simply never learn to defend themselves. Only the monk breaks the trend... but I dislike it for so many other reasons (eg it's lame, lame, lame, IMO). The game system also makes lightly-armored fighters very weak at low levels, and often overpowered at high levels. :(

(D20 Modern solves this problem, at least partially, by making sure characters can defend themselves and by making armor feats actually have a cost.)

The four encounters per day expected in DnD are too much. Often I feel like cutting back on spells/day and power points because of this. It's very hard coming up with three well defined encounters in a single day without pulling out the random encounters or forcing the players into yet another dungeon. (At lower levels you're expected to do less encounters ... look at your mage's spell slots available ... and at higher levels you're expected to do more. I really don't want to do six encounters at 14th-level or so in the space of a single day.)

Equipment as attacks in D20 Modern. (Really, I've yet to see a way to get a balanced grenade in-game. Some are too strong when you first get them, and they're all too weak at higher levels.)

Classes with unplayable or nearly unplayable CoCs. Lack of unarmed combat options.

Overuse of prestige classes, Complete Warrior, power creep, obviously broken or unclear stuff ending up in rulebooks, and a near-universal refusal to work on some high-level fighter feats. Even BoIM didn't cover this :(

Elven subraces. Half-dragons (draconic template is better), vampires (SKR's fleshbound template is better).

Strength. Really, much better than in 2e, but having a high Strength is overpowered at early levels (a 1st-level fighter with a greatsword doing 2d6+3 damage can kick my 1st-level rogue's 7 hit point behind and quick).
 
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barsoomcore said:
I detest fire-and-forget magic.

I think hit points are silly.

I think a skill-based attack modifier is an interesting idea, though I don't HATE the current system.

I'm not crazy about classes, generally speaking.

Um, howzat?

Sounds like you should check out my system (http://reanjr.net/index.php?blog=5) [The Simplified System posts; they're a bit disjoitned, but you can make most of it out it you pay attention] and tell me what you think (reanjr@wwnet.net)
 

Christopher Lambert said:
Severe overuse of magic items in 3e! Not only does this turn you into a Christmas tree and force you to account gold way too much*, but it also makes designing NPCs, as well as PCs above 1st-level, a brutal PitA.

It also seriously weakens classed NPCs that aren't spellcasters (while NPC spellcasters would love more gear, at least they can dish out all their spells during and right before an encounter, often making them overpowered).

* This falls in squarely with the amount of treasure you have to hand out in 3e. Even if you hand out the massive amounts of treasure "correctly" in 3e, a lot of it's value is lost when it gets sold. Most of the time you find treasure that's not worth it. (Ooh... I have a +2 battleaxe, so I guess this +1 shortspear is kind of pointless.) This tends to hurt non-spellcasting PCs, too, since even with the huge amount of incoming $ they're not actually getting enough.

It starts to resemble Diablo or Angband at lower levels... you don't run home because you're hurt, you run home because you can't carry more gear! You don't have to do this at higher level because everyone has their own portable hole.

Do you know of any d20/OGL D&D variant that addresses this problem without changing the whole game? I know that many people like to collect things, but I don't really appreciate it too much to run around like a better pack mule. Another problem is, that magical items lose their character; who cares about giving a +1 weapon a name? What point is there to make such a weapon your "signature weapon"? It's like taking the magic out of magic.
 

Turjan said:
Do you know of any d20/OGL D&D variant that addresses this problem without changing the whole game? I know that many people like to collect things, but I don't really appreciate it too much to run around like a better pack mule. Another problem is, that magical items lose their character; who cares about giving a +1 weapon a name? What point is there to make such a weapon your "signature weapon"? It's like taking the magic out of magic.

I haven't seen a way of doing this in DnD, but other D20 games handle this well. D20 Modern, Grim Tales (both basically assume you have no magic items), Midnight (1/4 the item value, and includes "heirloom" or "covenent" items) and, worst of all in terms of game balance, D20 Wheel of Time (they didn't do anything about high level spellcasters in a world where you don't get to wear a cloak of resistance).
 

D&D concepts that change the way a fantasy world works. It is too easy to heal, raise the dead, and travel great distances. No one should ever have a lasting injury, get sick, worry about dying, or take a ship from point A to B. Not after a few levels at least. The game world starts to break down at level 9, and becomes unrecognizable after that.

All clerics get the same spells plus a few domain spells. So a cleric of the god of stone can cast wind walk and control weather. What? And every time a new book comes out clerics get more spells. What??

Spell preparation. Takes too much game time.

Magic items. The game depends on them too much. As someone said, it is the trinkets that are bothersome: +1 weapon, +1 shield, +1 armor, +1 clock, +1 ring, +1 amulet, etc. Instead of just one cool items, a bunch of junk that the system requires you to have in order to survive.

The ranger class casts spells.

Massive damage checks. It kicks in at 50 hit points whether you have 51 hit points or 6051 hit points. Doesn't mesh with what hit points are supposed to represent.

The -10 death treshold. At high levels too easy to go from alive to instantly dead.

Random stats. I rally for point buy in every campaign I play in or run.

Random hit points. I rally for average in every campaign I play in or run.

Animated shields. Why specialize in sword-and-board when you can go two-handed and use an animated shield. Ick!

Ioun stones. Too damn silly.

Vorpal weapons. Oops, rolled a 20, you're dead mister 5,000hp guy.

DR. It hoses two-weapon fighting and archery, while rewarding two-handed fighting. And it encourages golf-bags and power attack. And if you don't have either of these, you are hosed. Maybe it is just that every demon and devil has DR in spades. Stuff like silver and holy. Ick!

Natural Spell. Something about the druid turning into a bird and flying overhead raining down flamestrikes seems wrong to me. If it was the schtick of one guy, okay. But every freaking druid at 7th level does it?

Campaign world must incorporate druids and monks or be non-standard.

Alignment too ingrained in system: DR and spell effects hard to adjust without it.

3.5 Cover. If you are shooting at a target with cover, that guy gets +4 AC. If you shoot through a friend at the same guy, that guy still gets +4 AC. So why not move and shoot through a friend at the guy. Heck shoot through twenty friends.

Ability drain stops at 0. So if a 6 Str guy and a 14 str guy take 16 points of str damage, the 6 str guy is back up in 6 days, but the 14 str guy is back up in 14 days.

Too many pet peeves...
 

Damn, maggot, you brought up pet peeves i didn't even realize were my pet peeves. You're right! i agree with just about everything you said. I guess the game is pretty screwy considering all the other, better options out there. But why do we like it so much? I guess it's just the fantasy genre in general, and DnD does it in spades...
 

Christopher Lambert said:
... and a near-universal refusal to work on some high-level fighter feats. Even BoIM didn't cover this :(
This one frustrates me as well. Sword & Fist - nothing, Complete Warrior - nothing (!), BoIM - still nothing! Argh! :mad:

Fighters who are not the best fighters in the game are definitely my pet peeve.

- F
 

maggot said:
All clerics get the same spells plus a few domain spells. So a cleric of the god of stone can cast wind walk and control weather. What? And every time a new book comes out clerics get more spells. What??
Ooo... another one I agree with. All divine casters should have a spells known table.


maggot said:
Massive damage checks. It kicks in at 50 hit points whether you have 51 hit points or 6051 hit points. Doesn't mesh with what hit points are supposed to represent.
I use this to correct:

- Massive Damage Threshold (MDT)= CON + (ECL - LA)*3
- Base DC 15. Every 10 points of dmg over MDT raises the DC by 2.

ECL = Effective Character Level
LA = Level Adjustment


maggot said:
The -10 death treshold. At high levels too easy to go from alive to instantly dead.
I use this to correct (from AU):

- Disabled: At 0 - CON mod (max. 0)
- Dead: At -CON stat


maggot said:
Animated shields. Why specialize in sword-and-board when you can go two-handed and use an animated shield. Ick!
I agree. Plus there are no feats for shields which do not involve bashing.


maggot said:
Vorpal weapons. Oops, rolled a 20, you're dead mister 5,000hp guy.
I use this to correct:

- Natural 20 with a vorpal weapon forces a massive damage save. The inflicted damage raises the save like above (every 10 points = +2 to DC).


maggot said:
3.5 Cover. If you are shooting at a target with cover, that guy gets +4 AC. If you shoot through a friend at the same guy, that guy still gets +4 AC. So why not move and shoot through a friend at the guy. Heck shoot through twenty friends.
Use 3.0 cover rules. ;)


maggot said:
Ability drain stops at 0. So if a 6 Str guy and a 14 str guy take 16 points of str damage, the 6 str guy is back up in 6 days, but the 14 str guy is back up in 14 days.
Ability drain stopping at 0 is ok.

Ability *Damage* should overflow to constitution and does so in my games.


- F
 

Just thought up another pet peeve (this is a general one that can be applied to ANY game).

Rules-by-Exception - This is where the game tells you that things work in manner x, except for situation y in which you instead use rule z in its place.

This type of thing can cause lots of confusion in the long run.

In looking at d20 this way, it seems that a lot of special options/abilities are rules-by-exception. To almost every base rule in d20, there seems to be some sort of exception. You get only one AoO, except if you have Feat xx, or Feat yy, or PrC zz.

This turns simple rules into a convoluted mess, IMO...
 

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