Reskinning should be easy in PF2. There are a ton of ancestries available now, and because of the way customization works, you can take feats from other ancestries without much risk of breaking something.
Pathfinder 2E PF2E Gurus teach me! +
- Thread starter darjr
- Start date
payn
Legend
This is a good point, the system has been designed for easy tinkering and adding.
Justice and Rule
Hero
Yeah, at this point it's pretty easy to figure out what a given feat should look like in a given category at a given level.
Thomas Shey
Legend
Yeah, swapping feats to a new Ancestry as long as you keep them at the proper level and deal with any pre-req issues should work okay.
Thomas Shey
Legend
I'm not as sold on that. But you should be able to use extent ones with good confidence.
Yaarel
Mind Mage
I got the Battlezoo Ancestries - Dragons.
It is fantastic. It makes sense to be able to play a Dragon. There are so many to choose from.
I cant wait to play.
Also, because there are different kinds of Dragons doing different kinds of things, it is a fantastic resource for homebrewers, because there are lots different kinds feats − especially magical feats! The GM can probably find a feat that is useful enough as-is for the homebrew. But if creating something specific, the Battlezoo Dragons are a great place to compare to get a sense of how powerful a feat should be at each level.
It is fantastic. It makes sense to be able to play a Dragon. There are so many to choose from.
I cant wait to play.
Also, because there are different kinds of Dragons doing different kinds of things, it is a fantastic resource for homebrewers, because there are lots different kinds feats − especially magical feats! The GM can probably find a feat that is useful enough as-is for the homebrew. But if creating something specific, the Battlezoo Dragons are a great place to compare to get a sense of how powerful a feat should be at each level.
Gubber Bittencourt
Explorer
The balance is every caster is a support. even if you are weak, as you impact strong character mechanics you help in the fight.
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For non-divine spontaneous casters, I can't recommend slow enough. It's not an incapacitation spell, so it will have full effect on higher-level creatures, and even on a successful save the target is slowed 1 for 1 round. When fighting a higher-level creature, you giving up two actions for one of theirs is generally a very good trade. And as a spontaneous caster, you can do it round after round.
Yaarel
Mind Mage
I am less of a fan of every mage being a "band-aid Cleric".
I hope there are aggressively combat competent mages too?
Thomas Shey
Legend
Mages are fine versus groups. They're not your go-to for single target takedowns though. That's part of the balance between casters and martials.
Spellcasters in general are best against numerous weaker opponents. With only a handful of exceptions, single-target spells do about the same damage as an equal-level area spell, and debuff/control spells are generally weaker than in PF1 or in 5e, with a more graduated effect. In PF1 or 5e, a debuff is generally all or nothing: a successful save has no effect, and a failed save does something pretty nasty.
For example, in PF1 hold person is "save or be paralyzed with a new save each round." In PF2, paralyze has these effects depending on the target's save:
Critical Success The target is unaffected.
Success The target is stunned 1.
Failure The target is paralyzed for 1 round.
Critical Failure The target is paralyzed for 4 rounds. At the end of each of its turns, it can attempt a new Will save to reduce the remaining duration by 1 round, or end it entirely on a critical success.
So you see that in order for the target to be paralyzed for a longer period of time, they need to critically fail. A regular failure only paralyzes them for one round. But on the upside, even a successful save gives them Stunned 1, meaning they lose one action next turn and can't do anything until then (no reactions etc.).
But as a second nerf, paralyze has the Incapacitation trait. That means that if the target has a level higher than twice the spell level (which by default is 3, but a prepared caster can prepare it in a higher-level slot for a stronger effect, and a spontaneous caster can either learn it in a higher-level slot or take it as a "signature spell" letting them spontaneously upcast it) the target's save result improves by 1 step, so a normal failure becomes a normal success, and a success becomes a critical success.
Incapacitation is a trait you'll find on strong debuffs like paralyze, blindness, or charm – the kind of thing that takes a foe out of the fight completely (even if temporarily). Weaker debuffs like fear or slow don't have that trait.
Yaarel
Mind Mage
I scrutinize gaming balance, and care about the fairness for players who prefer mages and for players who prefer martials.
At the same time, heh, stroking the ... ego ... of a martial isnt my concept of magic.
I expect there to be mage options that are viable in single combat, with a 50-50 chance of a successful outcome versus a martial.
There are ways to balance options. It is important to cover such narrative concepts that go beyond a "supporting role" to the "hero" role itself.
At the same time, heh, stroking the ... ego ... of a martial isnt my concept of magic.
I expect there to be mage options that are viable in single combat, with a 50-50 chance of a successful outcome versus a martial.
There are ways to balance options. It is important to cover such narrative concepts that go beyond a "supporting role" to the "hero" role itself.
Yaarel
Mind Mage
By the way, I appreciate this aspect that considers of degrees of success.
payn
Legend
A lot of this will depend on level and CR of encounters. Solo or smaller encounters that rank severe or extreme basically shut down the ability of a mage to go solo combat. Now, part of that ideal is that the party must face the threat together, but if you cant shake that idea that most of your spells will be reduced to minor inconvenience, PF2 is going to be a tough sell.
Yaarel
Mind Mage
PF2 is a system and a tradition of many, many − and evolving − options.
I am sure there is lots of room for mages who are the hero story.
payn
Legend
In relation to solo combat effectiveness, I'm not sure what that means?
In a "white room" fight between an equal-level martial and wizard, and if the martial starts at their preferred range, the wizard will almost certainly lose. It's not a foregone conclusion, but the odds are stacked that way. Blade beats paper, so to speak. The wizard, however, has some opportunities to "cheat", and if they can land a successful strong spell they stand a chance. But the wizard is much better suited to fighting off lots of weaker opponents.
Yaarel
Mind Mage
One mage PC versus one martial NPC.
Assuming they are the same level, there needs to be options for heroes who wield magic, with a fair outcome, 50-50.
payn
Legend
Oh, ok, see Staffan's latest post.
Yaarel
Mind Mage
Not every mage needs to be a "support character".
There needs to be options for the hero.
In the mythic of Merlin and King Arthur. I am uninterested in the "mentor". This is a combat game. I am interested in Merlin outright defeating King Arthur in combat.
Nerds rule!
Think of "mages" like modern "superheroes" who defeat opponents by means of magic.
There needs to be options for the hero.
In the mythic of Merlin and King Arthur. I am uninterested in the "mentor". This is a combat game. I am interested in Merlin outright defeating King Arthur in combat.
Nerds rule!
Think of "mages" like modern "superheroes" who defeat opponents by means of magic.
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