PHB2 Classes simply better?

[Garthanos]

Wow, really? I played a 3.x pally for years and always thought the mount was a waste of a class feature. It was cool in one or two encounters, but otherwise it was basically never used.

I'm glad they got rid of that.

To fix the Pally, I think all they need to do is use Divine Power to add sufficient powers at each level so either pally build is viable. At the absolute bear minimum, there should be a Strengthadin and Chaladin available to choose from. Ideally, there'd be a couple of each and they'd be equally viable.

I agree that would fix his playability... Chaladin is close already and for fans of the class well that is sometimes enough.

I had 2 horses in High School.... (Smokey and Wild Fire)

Gandalf and his horse. Thomas Covenant and the herd of magical horses that bowed to him The Llone Rangers and Zorros horses... they are character features with plenty of flavor even if they are not necessarily a power function, and as flavor is never a waste I miss them.

In the Disney show El Dorado.. remember that smart horse. In 4e I might call the one guy (who seems adopted by the horse) a Multiclass rogue dabbling in paladin and the other pure rogue. ( I seem to be on a Disney kick)

Technically there are few stories I can narrow down as being about Paladins with special horses Arthurian Knights doing healing miracle...dont really mention magical horses much... For me it was more something a signature of D&D itself if you will.

There is a thread of heros with intelligent horses that I have absorbed in D&D it was the Paladin.

 

[Parlan]

Gandalf and his horse. Thomas Covenant and the herd of magical horses that bowed to him The Llone Rangers and Zorros horses... they are character features with plenty of flavor even if they are not necessarily a power function, and as flavor is never a waste I miss them.

It's certainly a staple of fantasy (and other) literature. I like RL horsies, and I enjoyed my old pally's dire boar (horsies are nice, but pigs, pigs have character<g>)

That said, there were *very* few times when he made a difference in gameplay, which seems a shame. In addition, I've often wanted to play a non-paladin with a horsey. But 3.5 rules didn't support that either... hmmm... I wonder about getting a Rage Drake for my 4.0 Barbarian...

 

[Regicide]

To be honest, the worst class balance problems are in the PHB1. Fighters and Rangers are basically the most powerful classes in 4th ed so far, and Paladins are among the weakest. The Warden may be better than the Paladin, but he's not better than the Fighter.

So. Now that fighters have been hacked off at the knees...

 

[Garthanos]

It's certainly a staple of fantasy (and other) literature. I like RL horsies, and I enjoyed my old pally's dire boar (horsies are nice, but pigs, pigs have character<g>)

That said, there were *very* few times when he made a difference in gameplay, which seems a shame. In addition, I've often wanted to play a non-paladin with a horsey. But 3.5 rules didn't support that either... hmmm... I wonder about getting a Rage Drake for my 4.0 Barbarian...

Well if you want your horsey to be an active aide in battle ... could we do it as a Beastmaster companion.. combine with mounted combat and stir vigorously ... does the idea inspire new beast master powers?

Thing is I do want it to be more... less the core part of ones class... but a significant personal bond... like a familiar almost.

 

[Stalker0]

So. Now that fighters have been hacked off at the knees...

Fighters were in the top tier long before BRV and Tempest came out

 

[AllisterH]

In terms of striker damage - it still is ranger and rogue at the top.

For defender - I'm still siding with fighter then swordmage.

As for the PHB2 classes, I'm actually impressed in how well WOTC so far has given each of them (and the PHB 1 classes) their own feel.

 

[outsider]

So. Now that fighters have been hacked off at the knees...

Now the fighter got "hacked off at the knees", he stands 6'4 instead of 10' tall. Even after the changes, Fighter is still one of the top classes(at least top 3), in the game.

 

[thecasualoblivion]

So. Now that fighters have been hacked off at the knees...

This I don't get. Battlerager gets toned down from ridiculous(and it was heavily overrated before, Fighters were better off with the offensive firepower of the other three builds), Tempest gets a non-nerf by its primary at-will becoming more defender and less striker, and an overpowered encounter power gets a modest nerf.

Figthers remain the most powerful class in 4e.

 

[Regicide]

Figthers remain the most powerful class in 4e.

If they can't do striker damage, whats the point of having them in the party? The role of defender is redundant when strikers and controllers can have the same or even better survivability AND end the fight sooner. The defender's role is to mitigate damage and fighters don't do that significantly better than anyone else, even non-defenders, while other defenders can do additional things other than pretend to be a sub-par striker.

 

[OakwoodDM]

Interestingly, regarding the Warden, it's not his mark that makes him an effective defender.
From my (admittedly limited to a few encounters worth of combat testing) experience of my level 6 earthstrength warden, it's his controller aspects that kept the other party member almost entirely untouched. All the slowing, knocking prone and use of difficult terrain make it very difficult for them to get away from you once you close with them.

Now, I'm making no claims as to their relative power to the other defenders, just pointing out that the mark for them is very much a secondary way of defending.