[PHBII] Affiliations as PrC prerequisits?
- Thread starter MHahn1976
- Start date
Campaign and character dependent.
I personally think affiliations are a great way of measuring a connection to peers in some PrC's. [Guildmage for example]
Most PrC's however are solo ventures. Those PrC's that do require, or even suggest some organization [like a arcane caster getting approved for Sacred Exorcist] could have a affiliation score requirement.
Overall... I think you have asked a very interesting question. Thanks for sharing.
I personally think affiliations are a great way of measuring a connection to peers in some PrC's. [Guildmage for example]
Most PrC's however are solo ventures. Those PrC's that do require, or even suggest some organization [like a arcane caster getting approved for Sacred Exorcist] could have a affiliation score requirement.
Overall... I think you have asked a very interesting question. Thanks for sharing.
Nyeshet
First Post
A major consideration is the fact that classes and PrCs are typically expected to be permanent unless the PC is exposed to negative levels or does something highly unusual for the class (eg: ex-Paladin), but in the latter case they can usually get it changed into something of equal power (blackguard). Hmm, actually, by the RAW one no longer loses levels with 3.5e level loss. Instead they gain a penalty until they receive a Restoration. So it seems that levels, etc are truly immortal / unremovable.
That said, someone truly can lose their affiliation score. The score varies and can rise or fall with every mission - and likely will. A chance event or a poorly made choice and the PC's affiliation score might fall too low to qualify for the PrC - in which case by the RAW they lose all benefits of it (excluding, if I recall correctly, BAB, saves, HD, and skill points). The PC would have to take more care than typical as they could truly lose their PrC in a way non-typical in the game.
On the other hand, it might be more palatable and realistic to state that the minimum score is necessary to enter the PrC but is not a pre-req for maintaining the PrC - only for continued advancement. Thus, like a monk (IIRC) they would lose nothing but would no longer be able to advance - at least until they restored their Affiliation score.
That said, someone truly can lose their affiliation score. The score varies and can rise or fall with every mission - and likely will. A chance event or a poorly made choice and the PC's affiliation score might fall too low to qualify for the PrC - in which case by the RAW they lose all benefits of it (excluding, if I recall correctly, BAB, saves, HD, and skill points). The PC would have to take more care than typical as they could truly lose their PrC in a way non-typical in the game.
On the other hand, it might be more palatable and realistic to state that the minimum score is necessary to enter the PrC but is not a pre-req for maintaining the PrC - only for continued advancement. Thus, like a monk (IIRC) they would lose nothing but would no longer be able to advance - at least until they restored their Affiliation score.
Ycore Rixle
First Post
I think a minimum affiliation score as a prerequisite for entering and advancing within a Prestige Class is a fantastic idea. In fact, I have done this in my home campaign.
Nyeshet, like you, I'd say that the character couldn't advance if his affiliation score dropped too low, but that he could still maintain the abilities and levels he'd gained up until that point. If he restored his affiliation score to a higher level, he could advance again. In some rare cases I could see stripping a PC of abilities if his affiliation score dropped too low, but in general, no, I'd say that a lowered affiliation score would only prevent advancement and not force the removal of abilities.
Nyeshet, like you, I'd say that the character couldn't advance if his affiliation score dropped too low, but that he could still maintain the abilities and levels he'd gained up until that point. If he restored his affiliation score to a higher level, he could advance again. In some rare cases I could see stripping a PC of abilities if his affiliation score dropped too low, but in general, no, I'd say that a lowered affiliation score would only prevent advancement and not force the removal of abilities.
Nyeshet
First Post
There are only a few instances in which I can see a loss of Affiliation affecting PrC abilities.
If the organization is religious, and the PrC abilities are drawn from another source, then loss of affiliation could be akin to a cleric or paladin losing their powers (spells, SUs, etc) due to loss of support from their patron deity or a Druid's loss of powers due to becoming non-Neutral or teaching another the Druidic language.
If the organization is governmental and the PrC bequests some rights / "powers" of a governmental nature, I can see loss of affiliation score resulting in the loss of those PrC abilities that are derived directly from the governmental source (extra income, followers, titles, contacts, information source, etc). The issue here, however, is that I cannot recall a single PrC off hand that works in this manner. Furthermore, the bonuses stated (income, items, titles, followers) are directly stated as Affiliation benefits - which would of course be lost if the affiliation score fell, regardless of whether or not a PrC class was had to be lost.
If the organization is religious, and the PrC abilities are drawn from another source, then loss of affiliation could be akin to a cleric or paladin losing their powers (spells, SUs, etc) due to loss of support from their patron deity or a Druid's loss of powers due to becoming non-Neutral or teaching another the Druidic language.
If the organization is governmental and the PrC bequests some rights / "powers" of a governmental nature, I can see loss of affiliation score resulting in the loss of those PrC abilities that are derived directly from the governmental source (extra income, followers, titles, contacts, information source, etc). The issue here, however, is that I cannot recall a single PrC off hand that works in this manner. Furthermore, the bonuses stated (income, items, titles, followers) are directly stated as Affiliation benefits - which would of course be lost if the affiliation score fell, regardless of whether or not a PrC class was had to be lost.
Ycore Rixle
First Post
Another PrC whose abilities I could possibly see being stripped with a lowered affiliation score is... I think the name of it was Mage of the Arcane Order. Not sure if it changed in 3.5 or not, but I believe one of its abilities allowed you to contact other mages in the order and gain spells from them. I could see this ability being taken away - but not all of the other abilities of the PrC. In general, yes, I agree that losing affiliation score would just stymie advancement, not strip abilities.
Ycore Rixle said:
That's one that I'd prob. rewrite using the affilation rules. Really, what is it? You are basically a wizard who is a member of a cabal that grants access to a spellpool. You even get your bonus feats, at the same levels you would have if you entered the class at the first possible level. Even the 1st and 10th level class abilities shout affiliation - Guild Member and Regent.
kigmatzomat
Legend
MotAO could, IIRC, be revoked. Whatever means allows an individual to link to the spellpool could be reversed. I *think* that it requires a talisman to connect to the pool but that could have been a house rule.
IMC I use group affiliation (the concept, not PHII rules) as a pre-req for some PrCs. The Arcane Archers are only members of the elven military, Knights of the Middle Kingdom & Hospitalers are sects of the solamnic knights, MotAO are only part of one specific group, Fists of Zuoken are particular monasteries, etc, etc. Oaths not to reveal secrets to those not of the right organizations can be enforced by Geas, Mark of Justice, or some powerful extraplanar being (celestial, fiend, or an Inevitable)
This puts some of the Prestige in a PrC and it also provides characters incentive to adventure so they can distinguish themselves. Plus, they have to be someone who would be invited into a group, encouring them to be party-friendly. Loners don't get access to all PrCs.
IMC I use group affiliation (the concept, not PHII rules) as a pre-req for some PrCs. The Arcane Archers are only members of the elven military, Knights of the Middle Kingdom & Hospitalers are sects of the solamnic knights, MotAO are only part of one specific group, Fists of Zuoken are particular monasteries, etc, etc. Oaths not to reveal secrets to those not of the right organizations can be enforced by Geas, Mark of Justice, or some powerful extraplanar being (celestial, fiend, or an Inevitable)
This puts some of the Prestige in a PrC and it also provides characters incentive to adventure so they can distinguish themselves. Plus, they have to be someone who would be invited into a group, encouring them to be party-friendly. Loners don't get access to all PrCs.
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