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PHBII Classes in Forgotten Realms?
- Thread starter BadMojo
- Start date
Nyaricus
First Post
Oh, psionics have their own little niche, I could admit - Mind flayers, Drow, Gray Dwarves, and Skullport (underground Wterdeep FYI, if you didn't know) all have accomplished psioncists, IMO.Nightfall said:
Of course, Psionics in the Realms has always been 100% optional, so no worries.
Now, incarnium...
![:]](http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devious.png "Devious :]")
NiTessine
Explorer
Mmh... I think base classes should be as general and widely available as possible.
Beguilers are much like dread necromancers and warmages. They are highly specialised arcane casters, and more or less indistinguishable from your average specialist wizard or the correct school. I see no reason for there to even be a tradition or a special school for these - the fact you are a beguiler and not, say, an enchanter, can just as easily reflect a mixed set of interests. Unlike a wizard, you've been studying things other than magic a lot and therefore developed a narrower focus in spellcraft but acquired a pretty good set of other useful skills. I see beguilers most widespread in the great centres of civilisation or trade, such as Waterdeep, Silverymoon, Calimport, the cities of Sembia, and the Dragon Coast. I'd assume that pretty much every semisecret organisation of spies, information brokers or merchant lords would be interested in hiring one.
Dragon shamans are a bit trickier. The Cult of the Dragon probably has some. I can see dragon shamans being prevalent in Chessenta under the rule of Tchazzar and in Free Unther where the Cult of Tiamat is gathering power. A couple of other interesting ideas would be gnomish dragon shamans in Ieirithymbul (thanks to Palarandusk), a dragon shaman member of the Silmerhelve family (a confidante of Nymmurh), or dwarven dragon shamans in Mirabar (Due to the influence of Saryndalaghlothtor, should one wish to write up the rules for a crystal dragon shaman. Shouldn't be too hard.)
Duskblades pretty generic, if one ignores the fluff in Player's Handbook II. They can be found with the elves, easily enough. The drow would probably have a tradition of duskblades, especially in a place such as Sshamath, where magic is held in high regard. The dwarves, after Thunder Blessing, would see the value of such warriors, and Halruaa might be capable of fielding entire regiments of them in the field of battle. The City of Shade and possbily Thay are also likely places for them.
Knights are everywhere. There are knights in Evermeet, knights in Silverymoon, knights in Waterdeep, knights in the dwarfholds, oodles of knights in Cormyr... knights anywhere they follow Tyr, Torm, Helm, or the Red Knight, anywhere they have had a warrior caste.
Beguilers are much like dread necromancers and warmages. They are highly specialised arcane casters, and more or less indistinguishable from your average specialist wizard or the correct school. I see no reason for there to even be a tradition or a special school for these - the fact you are a beguiler and not, say, an enchanter, can just as easily reflect a mixed set of interests. Unlike a wizard, you've been studying things other than magic a lot and therefore developed a narrower focus in spellcraft but acquired a pretty good set of other useful skills. I see beguilers most widespread in the great centres of civilisation or trade, such as Waterdeep, Silverymoon, Calimport, the cities of Sembia, and the Dragon Coast. I'd assume that pretty much every semisecret organisation of spies, information brokers or merchant lords would be interested in hiring one.
Dragon shamans are a bit trickier. The Cult of the Dragon probably has some. I can see dragon shamans being prevalent in Chessenta under the rule of Tchazzar and in Free Unther where the Cult of Tiamat is gathering power. A couple of other interesting ideas would be gnomish dragon shamans in Ieirithymbul (thanks to Palarandusk), a dragon shaman member of the Silmerhelve family (a confidante of Nymmurh), or dwarven dragon shamans in Mirabar (Due to the influence of Saryndalaghlothtor, should one wish to write up the rules for a crystal dragon shaman. Shouldn't be too hard.)
Duskblades pretty generic, if one ignores the fluff in Player's Handbook II. They can be found with the elves, easily enough. The drow would probably have a tradition of duskblades, especially in a place such as Sshamath, where magic is held in high regard. The dwarves, after Thunder Blessing, would see the value of such warriors, and Halruaa might be capable of fielding entire regiments of them in the field of battle. The City of Shade and possbily Thay are also likely places for them.
Knights are everywhere. There are knights in Evermeet, knights in Silverymoon, knights in Waterdeep, knights in the dwarfholds, oodles of knights in Cormyr... knights anywhere they follow Tyr, Torm, Helm, or the Red Knight, anywhere they have had a warrior caste.
(NiT since we already have a Ni and a Ny on this thread 
)
3catcircus
Adventurer
NiTessine said:
Hmm - then how do you resolve this with the fact that there are specific prestige classes and/or substitution levels for the various knights in the Forgotten Realms (Purple Dragon Knight, Knight-Errant of Silverymoon, Crescent Moon Knight, Darksong Knight, Knight of the Blue Moon, Knight of the Flying Hunt, Knight of the Weave, Mystic Fire Knight, Silverhair Knight, Ruby Rose Knight, Thayan Knight, Triadic Knight, Vengeance Knight, Wary Swordknight)
Not only thay, but there are at least a few Knight prestige classes in the splat books - Knight Protector, Knight of the Chalice, etc.
I constantly find myself in a situation where I look at a core or splat book's classes and see a similar Forgotten Realms specific one that is more balanced, has more flavor, or is otherwise preferable. In fact, they've taken some Forgotten Realms specific ones and thrown them in the "Complete" books and 3.5 DMG as generic ones. Additionally, some from F&P also appeared in a Complete Divine web enhancement (and some people are of the opinion that these lost their flavor in the web enhancement version.)
I think that the PHB2 Knight is similar to the S&F Master Samurai - a completely misnamed class that misleads the player into roleplaying a character a specific way.
In my opinion, the generic "Knight" should be looked upon similarly as was done in the D&D Rules Cyclopedia - the Knight is a Neutral fighter type, while the Paladin and Avenger were Lawful and Chaotic fighter types.
NiTessine
Explorer
The PHBII Knight is a knight, such as might be found in the service of any lord of Cormyr, or indeed, as the lord himself. The prestige classes represent knights of specific orders. Unless each lord of the Forest Kingdom should have a prestige class of his own, there is no conflict. Most of the different knightly prestige classes are also quite accessible to knights.3catcircus said:
3catcircus
Adventurer
NiTessine said:
Sorry, I don't buy that. All of the canon for Cormyr is pretty clear on this - a "knight" in Cormyr is a 3rd level Fighter (Cormyr, pg. 26) and "...because of the heroic actions of their leaders, the Purple Dragon knights." (FRCS, pg. 49) indicates that the commanders generally have this prestige class as a form of an order of chivalry or an order of merit - kind of like the US military's officers receiveing the Legion of Merit award - but that there is only *one* knightly order in Cormyr that is based upon fealty to the lords, nobles, and royalty. Any other knightly orders would be religious in nature.
My point is that the PHB2 "Knight" class - he is nothing more than a heavy cavalry soldier with a few tricks thrown in. You can pretty much do the same things with a fighter and the right feats. There is really nothing compelling about this as a base class for me. If I want a super heavy-duty fighter, I'll choose the Gallowglass. If I want a really good mounted combatant, I'll qualify for and take levels in the Cavalier PrC. If I want FR-specific knightly order flavor, I'll pick one of the FR-specific PrC or substitution levels.
Nyaricus
First Post
You do, of course, realise that the name "knight" given to the PHBII class is merely a basic descriptor - one could just as easily rename it Guardian or Protector.3catcircus said:
On top of that, your reference is 2nd edition, which did not have a class who's name was 'knight', is nullifyed by that very reason. There's no point in going on about it.
Call them what you will, but a Knight PrC is a much more specialised than that base class, or the fighter, and thus gives justification to it being there. Heck, call the knight class a 'squire' until you get to be a Knight and let'r rip.
In any case, cross-referencing AD&D and 3.xe is largely an excercise in frustration and debate, as we have already seen here.
Cheers,
--N
NiTessine
Explorer
Indeed, I'm not trying to sell it. If you don't like the class, suit yourself. I am merely offering my own interpretation of how the class might be inserted into the Realms. Trying to offer examples of how the knight class hasn't been a part of the Realms before isn't really going to achieve anything when the point is to put it there in the first place.3catcircus said:
Weiley31
Legend
Apparently, according to the superb Class Spotlight section on the sadly defunct WOTC 3.5 website section, the spotlight revealed that Duskblades ARE a bastard offshoot of the Bladesinger Style. Except the style was made available for non elves to be used. So Bladesingers aren't quite "fond" of Duskblades due to that.
Basically a Bladesinger would view the Duskblade style as a corruption of such an elegant art of war. Yes Duskblade would tell the Bladesinger to sod off.
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