Pinpointing area spells

[Oryan77]

I was considering implementing a new way of handling spells like Evards Tentacles, Darkness, Fireball, ect, and wanted to see what people think of this.

I use template cutouts to measure the area of effect for spells. In an attempt to speed up player decisions and to make it less lame to me, I was thinking about making players quickly point at a square on the battlemat to tell me where they want to center there spell. Then they can grab the template cutout to measure the exact radius of squares that the spell targets.

We get into situations where a caster casts the spell and all the players each take turns repositioning the template cutout trying to find the best position for the spell so none of them get hit and more NPCs are targeted. That slows down the game and is also kind of silly to me to think that the caster is able to lay down a spell to the point where it misses allies by one square and is perfectly positioned to hit enemies in all other squares.

I don't mind the player taking time to count out "20" squares ahead in an attempt to gauge it...and using this method will make it too hard to tell if the sides of the area are in/out of range of other characters.

Is this a fair way to handle this?

 

[Erywin]

I would say so, as long as your players are ok with it. I actually might steal this idea for the campaign I am running, as one of the "clever" players will humm and haw for a few minutes about where to place the template.

 

[moritheil]

What's there to hem and haw about? I always just state "If it is possible to place the spell such that it hits X and Y but not Z, I do so; if not, I'm willing/not willing to include Z." Fast and simple.

 

[Oryan77]

What's there to hem and haw about? I always just state "If it is possible to place the spell such that it hits X and Y but not Z, I do so; if not, I'm willing/not willing to include Z." Fast and simple.

Well it's hard to explain over a forum.

Take the 20' radius template for example. When a fireball is laid down in the middle of a battlefield, the caster pulls out the template and starts "testing" different positions to see how he can turn or move the template around so it hits as many enemies as possible. Then another player will say, "That won't work, because my PC is in the way"...and he'll grab the template to start "helping" the caster find a better position. Then another player will say, "Oh, if you set it here you can get this extra guy here"...and he'll grab the template to show the group.

It slows the game down a lot. Even if the caster is the only one positioning the template, it still slows things down because he's spending a lot of time (way more than 6 seconds) repositioning the template so it squeezes in the battlefield perfectly.

I think my idea will accomplish a lot of things. It will speed things up, and it will make the casters more hesitant to use spells like Evard's Tentacles in the middle of the battlefield where their allies are. And as DM, I can use any edge I can get to avoid another casting of Evard's Tentacles

 

[Ruslanchik]

My group doesn't usually allow input from other players on decisions like that. If the wizard is casting the spell, the wizard decides where it goes. In combat, the druid would not say, "hey aim that Fireball 5 feet to the north!" We can remind each other about rules: "That spell has a 25 ft. radius." But if the wizard drops a spell on my head, it is her mistake.

We also don't use cutouts of any kind. If it is a lasting spell, we'll just roughly draw it on the battle mat with a dry erase marker. Works pretty well and seems fairly realistic.

Frankly, I think that it should be more difficult to place a spell just so. A spell caster would have a tough time throwing a stone into a five foot square 100 feet away, why should it be so easy to place a spell there? It would add an element of caution to make the accuracy of spells variable. If you are going to use area spells, you need to be careful and aware of the effects on party members.

 

[evilbob]

I would also not allow others to "help" the mage place a spell. That, plus a reasonable time limit for each turn (30 seconds or less) will help speed things up and encourage casters to plan ahead.

Also, don't forget that unless you're in a restrictive area, you can always cast a spell above your enemy and target fewer people at a time. If you want to hit a 10' area in the middle of all your buddies and you're all outside in the open, then it is completely possible (in other words, don't just think in 2 dimensions! ).

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Battles are extremely chaotic and I think making a player quickly point out the focus point of a spell is a good idea that saves time.

After all, the battle isn't paused so Mr. Mage can pull out his measuring tape and calculate where the precise location of his spell should be so that it has optimum effect.

 

[moritheil]

Well it's hard to explain over a forum.

Take the 20' radius template for example. When a fireball is laid down in the middle of a battlefield, the caster pulls out the template and starts "testing" different positions to see how he can turn or move the template around so it hits as many enemies as possible. Then another player will say, "That won't work, because my PC is in the way"...and he'll grab the template to start "helping" the caster find a better position. Then another player will say, "Oh, if you set it here you can get this extra guy here"...and he'll grab the template to show the group.

It slows the game down a lot. Even if the caster is the only one positioning the template, it still slows things down because he's spending a lot of time (way more than 6 seconds) repositioning the template so it squeezes in the battlefield perfectly.

I think my idea will accomplish a lot of things. It will speed things up, and it will make the casters more hesitant to use spells like Evard's Tentacles in the middle of the battlefield where their allies are. And as DM, I can use any edge I can get to avoid another casting of Evard's Tentacles

I think you explained that pretty well.

I should clarify by stating that when I DM, players don't get to spend half an hour placing their spell effects. They state what they have in mind and I do my best to fulfil their conditions. If I know something is not going to be possible, I say so and ask them to list their priorities.

 

[Kmart Kommando]

Though I agree that it slows down the game sometimes. I'd rather see that, than one player sitting out the next few encounters because the wizard toasted his character.

I want to see more multi-target-hit-the-targets-you-choose-save-for-half spells. It would speed up the game by eliminating the targeting reticle syndrome.

 

[1500run]

...I was thinking about making players quickly point at a square on the battlemat to tell me where they want to center their spell. Then they can grab the template cutout to measure the exact radius of squares that the spell targets.

please remember, as i'm sure you already have, that spells don't target a square, instead, they target a grid intersection.