Pirating RPGs. (And were not talking "arggg" pirate stuff here.)

[Spell]

#3: Foster an environment where people face more risk than reward for e-thefts. For instance, if we implemented a USA federal system where you could turn in someone that was E-stealing copyrighted product off the internet and get a confidential reward, we might be able to nip this in the bud. Imagine what would happen if there was a minimum $3,000.00 fine for being caught comitting an e-theft (up to $25,000 for multiple offenses) (plus 1 week minimum community service), with 25% of the collected fine being given to the person turning in the thief. Heck, if that were available, I can imagine a nice niche cottage industry for being a narc ...

i suggest death penalty. i feel it's much more effective.

tell me, please, are you advocating that the USA laws should be "implemented" in other states, as well? the majority of illegal downloads might be in the USA, but if you plan to enforce your laws on non USA citizens who are not living in USA, then i see no moral difference between you and people who pirate stuff.

i really hope i'm overreacting (i'm very very touching about political stuff and useless draconian laws, lately... mostly because they are just unjust laws against joe the citizen and are utterly useless for people who really does harm... i have to stop before i start my political rant...), and that i am reading in your post something that is not there. else, you should take a step back and start considering the implications of your logic.

 

[nothing to see here]

i suggest death penalty. i feel it's much more effective.

tell me, please, are you advocating that the USA laws should be "implemented" in other states, as well? the majority of illegal downloads might be in the USA, but if you plan to enforce your laws on non USA citizens who are not living in USA, then i see no moral difference between you and people who pirate stuff.

Modern crime has no borders, that's why we need extradition treaties and the like. The problem with IP cirmes stems from the ridiculously high American share of world cultural products (particulary from a revnue standpoint). There is very little incentive to sign a treatie to surrender it's citizens when the threat is so assymetrical (not a lot of American priaters stealing Chinese movies, for example). Hence getting this international framework requires som diplmoatic arm twisting...which is what we are seeing.

 

[Spell]

I think there's a lot of whining going on, and it's really kinda annoying. People will always buy stuff, people will always "steal" stuff.

amen. i find incredible how people forgets that, before cd burning and p2p, and before pdf swapping, there were tapes and photocopies.
i had hundreds of tapes, and i still had the best album collection this side of my town (i'm talking vynils... THAT was a secure medium, and it was cracked anyway...).
i didn't care for the reduced quality (as i don't care today), and if i did like something, i went out of my way to find a copy here. damn, i paid the equivalent of 25 dollars in 1996 to find a CD copy (i was looking for either that or vynil) of three imaginary boys (the first album by the cure), EVEN if i had it on tape.

it's normal that there's some people who will infringe laws, steal, and go out of their way to get what they want. and it's normal that the producers fight their battle. but, please, be honest and stop putting the whole question on moral ground. it might work for the RPG market (which, no offence, is so ridiculously small that it's not worth of notice), but the moral argument just doesn't hold water in the bigger scheme of things.

 

[S'mon]

And regardless of privacy, I feel that because it's mine, I have the right to say who can see it. I think - for example - that I would have the right to give you a copy of my story, but tell you that I don't want you to give copies and to other people. (And if you're not happy with that, then you can say "no thank you" and not accept the copy).

This right is protectable under contract law or the law of breach of confidence, again it doesn't depend on your monopoly control of the information, only on my agreement to you not to distribute your work. The situation changes when you've published the work & anyone can access it.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Modern crime has no borders, that's why we need extradition treaties and the like. The problem with IP cirmes stems from the ridiculously high American share of world cultural products (particulary from a revnue standpoint). There is very little incentive to sign a treatie to surrender it's citizens when the threat is so assymetrical (not a lot of American priaters stealing Chinese movies, for example). Hence getting this international framework requires som diplmoatic arm twisting...which is what we are seeing.

Crime may have no border, but thankfully the law does. The notion that one country could make a law that applies equally to its own residents and to those who had nothing to do with electing the individuals who drafted it, is so abhorrent as to be nauseating. If you're in Finland, Canada, the Netherlands, or a whole host of other countries in which downloading (for example) an .mp3 is legal, then it's legal. And just because it's illegal in America doesn't make you a thief, immoral, or anything else. You're an upstanding citizen of your own country operating in a legal fashion.

Anyway, extradition treaties are not intended to allow one country to prosecute an individual from another country because he breaks a law to which he is not obliged. It is intended to allow for the removal of an individual from one country back to another country in which he broke the law and then subsequently fled to the first country. Extradition is intended to eliminate the "run for the border" strategy of avoiding law enforcement, not to give a country the ability to apply its laws outside of its borders. Not that it stops a few countries (which shall remain nameless, per the no politics rules) from acting like their laws apply universally.

It's normal that there's some people who will infringe laws, steal, and go out of their way to get what they want. and it's normal that the producers fight their battle. but, please, be honest and stop putting the whole question on moral ground. it might work for the RPG market (which, no offence, is so ridiculously small that it's not worth of notice), but the moral argument just doesn't hold water in the bigger scheme of things.

I agree. For the greater part, this is an issue of conflict of interest, and not of ethics. It's two groups (producers and users) working against each other for control of a valuable commodity. It just happens that in the case of RPGs, it might be true that the actions of P2P distributors affect the livelihood of the producers. If so, then there might be an ethical aspect, but I think that ethics mostly comes into this situation because people enjoy pointing fingers and accusing each other of being blackguards. Or thieves. I'm just waiting for an author to claim to have been raped by P2P, so we can start calling them rapists too.

 

[S'mon]

Not that it stops a few countries (which shall remain nameless, per the no politics rules) from acting like their laws apply universally.

They hate our freedoms...

 

[eyebeams]

Interestingly, I've found a few cases where pirated files appear to be inside jobs. One of the pirated Epic Level Handbooks floating around a few filesharing networks is a late playtest draft.

 

[francisca]

A few things: 1) software and rpg material are not good analogs. There is no secondary income derived from free rpg material as there is from Linux. 2) How many open source success stories are there, anyway? I only know of one.

No argument with #1.

If you consider making an honest living by supporting Open Source software on a day to day basis a success story, then their are countless examples. Even before linux, people were making a living by support such software as sendmail and gcc, just to name a few.

 

[Spell]

How was the intellectual property laws when Shakespeare or Mozart did their thing?

to be fair, though, life for *some* artists is much much easier these days.
that said, i find extremely unfair and infuriating that in my business, music, the industry at large takes advantage of draconic practices, unfair deals, scheming, plotting, illegal actions, ignorace of the artists and public, and even legitimate and ideally good laws (such as copyright) to earn money.
check the news. you'll find routinely stuff about payola, accounting frauds, unfair contracts, and so on.
why does a label request me to re-record my album? to have a better quality recording? to own the publishing on the sound recording? to make me recoupe even more money, so that, while they are making money i won't see a penny?

i never signed with a label, and worked my ass to produce my own albums, and to make them available, even for free.
now, what happens? all of the sudden whoever downloads stuff on p2p network is a pirate, a scun, the scourge of earth. so, even people who is LEGALLY downloading my stuff (which i uploaded myself), is a pirate and is breaking the law.
not really, but the general public has that idea, and that equation in mind. p2p=pirate.
that's why i'm so extreme in this regard. the "legitimate" and "legal" business is using his muscles to make sure that that little business i had is now disappearing.
thanks, majors!

 

[Desdichado]

But, yes, as a precondition of WTO membership the US insisted most firmly that infringers be sentenced to death. I don't know whether to be more depressed about the request or the compliance with said request.

Please provide source. I can find absolutely no evidence of this, and I've even read the U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission report of earlier this year.

I don't believe this for a second.