PKing between PCs; do you allow it?

[Von Ether]

I don't allow it anymore.

In an Exalted game I ran, players were all paranoid from previous WW experience and went on an arms-race Charm wise to try to become powerful enough to fight off other PCs if need be. The plot, the natural development of the characters, and just about all the fantasy of it was quickly whittled down to "I must protect myself, keep as much info I learn private as possible, and be ready to strike down my friends at a moment's notice."

In almost every DND game I've seen PC death in, the newly-departed's replacement was typically geared and designed to kill the player character who killed his predecessor. Typically, getting back meant more than moving on, and there's no surprise to it really. If you waste 9 months of someone's play, it either rears up and bites you in the rear, or you get to take the "and I'll kill anyone who gets in my way" stance. Where's the fun in that?

Double-crosses, political / social backstabbing, and general prankery are fine in my book, but actually ending the story for a character is a big, serious, No No now.

Most of the attempted PKs I've had the pity to witness were all for metagame reasons. Most didn't even try to concoct a in-game motivation for the action. What was really frustrating how bone headed these guys were when they were mad at me for stopping the insanity. Now a days, these same gamers are on my banned list, though one of them "sorta" apologized with a "Well, I was 17 at the time, what did you expect?"

The worst was a dude (another teenager) who was trying to find excuses to kill all the NPC, PC and then himself. I told him we could use Parinoia instead, but he said it wouldn't be fun if everyone one else was trying to do it.

 

[Von Ether]

In the end I've found that it leads to PC's being more respectful of each other. When a player knows the GM will not allow inter PC conflict, he can do whatever he wants, and some PC's can become downright antisocial. When he knows the GM will not only allow player killing and player abandoning, etc, but he'll instead reward it, he knows that he HAS to be in good standing with the party members. As it should be.

As a GM on PKing, I've had the opposite experience. I've found that more freeform gaming only has the players turn my game into a table top deathmatch. No one focuses on the module or world as they start an arms race and wait for the earliest excuse to use their deadly abilities. If someone has "I think I am immune and can do what I want" I generally talk to them and eventually kick them out for poor role playing.

As a GM on PC abandoment -- which sometimes goes hand in hand with assumed "PC immunity. I'll do that in a heartbeat. I had one fellow who "role played" his PC into being a bystander instead of introducing his character. After 30 min. of sitting at the game table with nothing to do, he was much more willing to find a motivation to hook up with the party.

As a player, I'm not a fan of PKing. I'm not a min/maxer for combat and don't ususally play combat orientated characters. I've had too many combat monsters bully the rest of the party with threats of PKing anyone who doesn't see things their way.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

I try to discourage my players from killing each other. It brings up bad feelings, and the stains are impossible to get out of the carpet.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

In theory I'll allow it. I might make it difficult, but I won't outright stop the PCs.

That being said, it has happened so rarely that I have almost never had to deal with it. It's probably been over ten years since I've seen actual PC vs. PC combat.

 

[ARandomGod]

As a GM on PKing, I've had the opposite experience. I've found that more freeform gaming only has the players turn my game into a table top deathmatch. No one focuses on the module or world as they start an arms race and wait for the earliest excuse to use their deadly abilities. If someone has "I think I am immune and can do what I want" I generally talk to them and eventually kick them out for poor role playing.

It's probably something in the way that I run it that makes it turn out that way. One thing I definitely do is emphasise that there HAS to be a role-playing reason. You can't just randomly kill someone and expect to get anything but punished for it.

As a GM on PC abandoment -- which sometimes goes hand in hand with assumed "PC immunity. I'll do that in a heartbeat. I had one fellow who "role played" his PC into being a bystander instead of introducing his character. After 30 min. of sitting at the game table with nothing to do, he was much more willing to find a motivation to hook up with the party.

And that, IMO, is THE best way to handle someone who won't give a hook into the party. If there's no reason for him to come along, then he can stay there at the inn/tavern/wherever the party met him. If he wants to PLAY, he'll have to do so.

As a player, I'm not a fan of PKing. I'm not a min/maxer for combat and don't ususally play combat orientated characters. I've had too many combat monsters bully the rest of the party with threats of PKing anyone who doesn't see things their way.

I've only had that happen a few times. I usually follow it up with telling everyone to role-play their characters well, and I'll let them know that it really looks like the people being bullied are going to have to do some role-play to counter this.

In fact, the above meantioned time that did lead to PKing was something like this. Not quite so drastic, but one PC bullying a weaker one (Fighter bullying a roguish mage). The weaker PC's player asked people to make it stop... the other PC's didn't, I told them all that as a GM I'll allow the PC's to do whatever, including bullying or killing other PC's. When I was asked again in private why I didn't stop it, I asked him why HE didn't stop it. The other guy's got to sleep sometime, right?

But in general it happens very rarely. When the players see how I handle interparty conflict, they try harder to make the party get along. Because, as a majrity of people have said, in general PKing isn't fun. And a smart group will eventually figure that out... or, if they don't, it's because it IS fun. And really it's a lot less work for me as a GM if they make all the monsters up themselves (ie, other PC's).

 

[Rl'Halsinor]

I have seen PKilling in three seperate groups and not one ever turned out "okay." In fact, the fallout eventually hurt each and every setting. Of the 3, one blew up right then and there. As for the other 2 there was more of a slow simmer where as there was real tension between players in AND out of the gaming circles. The DMs had to start afresh with a different combination of players. Not fun at all.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

About the only rule I have when it comes to character backgrounds/personality/etc is "As long as you can get along without killing each other. The second you go after each other, the PCs become NPCs."

It works pretty well, and it HAS happened a couple of times that I've taken control of a PC when he went all...PK-like, but the player completely understood and it actually provided a very interesting recuring villain.

 

[Odhanan]

Well, Player Killing I don't allow - I throw you by the door instead. Character Killing, however, I allow, so long as the players don't try to use me (DM) as part of the conflict. It should be clear it's in-game, and both players have to accept the consequences of character fights.

To be frank, it didn't arise in any third edition table I've run yet, but when I was playing VtMasquerade, back in the day, man, that was bloody for characters. I even had five character killings one night. But backstabbing between PCs is part of the game, there. You have to *expect* betrayal or you die. Sooner or later.

 

[Jackelope King]

I discourage it in most cases but allow it when it makes sense and when it won't lead to undue hostility between players.

If two characters have a definite reason in-game to want to come to blows like that and possibly try to kill one another, then they should go for it. Plus, if it reaches that level, the players are probably mature enough to be able to accept the consequences (though in most cases, non-evil PCs elect to simply leave the group rather than to kill a rival).

For example, in the first 3E game I ran, the paladin had been asking me for an opportunity to change his character, and the rogue was bemoaning that he played a human instead of an elf (he wanted a sky-high dexterity score). The paladin's player was considering playing a druid next, and asked if this would be okay. I noted that the paladin and the rogue were already borderline enemies (the rogue had just slid to evil and was constantly harassing the paladin, who had sworn an oath to protect the rogue).

So the rogue gets an offer: murder the PC sorceress and get an incredible reward. Of course, this seemed like an excellent idea. The paladin got wind of this and rushed off to stop the rogue. The rogue tried to kill the sorceress, but he didn't know the sorceress' magic sword protected her with sanctuary while she slept, and the rogue's will save was abysmal. The paladin storms into the room and smites the living daylights out of the rogue, knowing doing so will cost him his paladin-hood. The rogue is killed and the paladin commits suicide to atone. The commotion awoke the sorceress, who never told the other PCs what happened, but being NG herself, she sought out a way to have the rogue and paladin brought back to life. They met a druid (the former-paladin player's new character) who agreed to cast reincarnate for them. The paladin refused to be brought back to life, but the rogue agreed to come back, and rather than rolling, I ruled he came back as an elf. Pretty much everyone at the table was happy how it had been resolved, there were no hard feelings, and things were good.

 

[BlueBlackRed]

I've ranted to my group that childish behaviour like this leads to bad things.

Only 2 outcomes are possible from such a conflict:
1) The jerk loses his PC and is tought a lesson.
2) The jerk ruins the campaign. He is then told shown the door.

Role-playing to kill a PC is not a good answer because we create groups that work as a team. So if there is a paladin, no one will be making an assassin. If someone insists upon making an evil character or they pout, then they are also shown the door.

Of course, once every few years we run an all-evil campaign. It's usually a fun 3-5 weeks, and then it collapses.