Plagiarism vs. Inspiration

[djotaku]

Someone already mentioned this, but let me elaborate - you're starting from a false premise. In the USA, at least, rules cannot be copyrighted. No one wants to waste the money going up against Hasbro's lawyers, but the fact of the matter is that the SRD is not necessary. The rules aren't copyrightable so technically anyone could use them. What IS copyrightable is art, text, flavor, etc. I think this might be the answer to your question. Most of the discussion I've heard about AI and TTRPGs is in creating art. So the contradiction you think is there isn't actually there.

Frankly I'm glad there's no copyright for rules or there would only be one game allowed. As someone else mentioned, after the first person created Ludo, you couldn't have sorry or monopoly or any other game that used dice to move forward. By keeping rules from being copyrighted, the TTRPGs have to stand on their own merits. So both D&D and Pathfinder are d20 TTRPGs where you roll against AC, DC, etc. But they both have completely different flavors and cater to different types of fans. That's awesome! Otherwise you'd be stuck with D&D or nothing else. Both Daggerheart and Draw Steel decided they would use the concept of rolling 2 dice instead of 1. (with a crit on doubles) But Daggerheart is more about story-telling and Draw Steel is more about tactics. This is awesome! One of the worst things the US did was allowing copyrights for algorithms. It has really held back progress in the tech world.

 

[Piperken]

...However after spending many years in isolation in regards to my system, I have come to the community to find that the back and forth passing around of mechanics, commonplace. Not always ethical, but common place...

..."Well what is the difference?"...

...There is an attempt to make it unique but only minimal effort of which you can't really call it unique...

This however what I find curious. Is that while the scene stands on the moral high ground with AI, that the theft of ideas is wrong, it rather hypocritically and with open arms does the exact same thing with other peoples mechanics...

A key difference, which I don't think has been explicitly mentioned, is that generally when communities share mechanics, that's by personal choice and one out of courtesy follows whatever the unspoken contract happens to be within those communities.

It's not terribly different than when I pay a little money to attend a comedy night. The unspoken contract there is my donation hopefully results in a few hours entertainment for myself, with the grace and understanding that some terrible, awful jokes likely will be attempted by newer comedians who're honing their craft, or experienced comedians testing new material.

My tolerance for "jokes told by people I don't know," will be a little higher in that span of time because of that.

AI doesn't operate with these considerations.

A second point to mention is that setting aside "Is this AI or not" question; broadly, most ppl versed in their art-sy/creative spaces recognize where stuff is derived e.g. Oh, they based their inventory system from Mausritter!

In fact, often when it comes to the point of describing what said art-sy/creative thing is to others, we blurb on the pitch, box cover etc. where it originated from.

Which is also to say that ppl will recognize when genuine effort has been put into making something.

 

[ART!]

As some of you may know I have been wary of sharing too many ideas for fear of them being copied.

The teacher of a creative writing class I took addressed this by saying "the river of creativity does not stop flowing". If you're creative enough to be creating things, you're creative enough to keep creating things. New ideas will come. Don't be too precious about your ideas.

This might not apply as much to actual trademark-able innovations, but it's at least semi-relevant.

[EDIT: removed redundant mention of what can and can't be copyrighted]

 

[1QD]

Well, while you’re correct that you can’t copyright ideas in general, you’ve missed the fact that you also can’t copyright game mechanics in particular. So one (partial) answer is that the law doesn’t recognize copying a game mechanic as plagiarism.

Game mechanics are ideas tho.. I have already stated I know you can not copyright ideas. Plagiarism is technically legal when it comes to game mechanics. But where is the moral ground for copying someone else's ideas?

 

[1QD]

I see no problem with games having similar mechanics.

Are you suggesting only one board game should have a rule where you rolled dice and moved your pawn that number of spaces and all others should have a unique mechanic?

Or that only one TTRPG should have a rule that you roll dice and tried to get a number above a target number?

The person in question quoted a rules specific system's rule and then said they were going to use it in their own creation. Personal use, I can understand, even encourage, but professional? No.

 

[1QD]

I got over the idea that sharing my ideas would mean someone will "steal" my game. Honestly, if someone wants to make my game for me, I will give them all I currently have (good luck organizing my documents!) and gladly be a playtester and producer because it's so much hard work to actually make a good final product. So, 100% agree with Morrus - it's the effort that actually matters.

I feel that the majority of the scene tends to lean towards this view, however I have seen people state they just out right steal stuff. I do not see anything moral about doing so. Especially when they go on to criticize AI for doing the exact same thing.

 

[1QD]

The best way to avoid all of this is to just come up with your own ideas.

I have no interest in negotiating the legal landscape, or any nuance or exception that has been weaved into the copyright laws.

All I know is that copying another person's idea is wrong.

That is the area I am having issue with, but not in the way people think. When I went off to write my own work I sealed myself away, and didn't look at other RPG's. I used books, anime, video games and movies for inspiration. I came up with my own mechanics and steered clear of other peoples RPG works. While I have created everything on my own, there is still the risk of two people can have the same idea, and now there is criticism for being an island. Damned if I do, damned if I don't. With that said, I have come to accept if I want the game to do well, it has to have exposure, and after some time, I believe I now know how to circumvent most of my concerns with a bit more time.

 

[THE ATTIC]

To steal from one is plagiarism.

To steal from many is synthesis.

 

[1QD]

. So the contradiction you think is there isn't actually there.

I do not see it that way. The act of taking other peoples ideas are inherent to both. Neither of them can be copyrighted. I do not see a moral high ground in defending one while criticizing the other.

I will however fully agree with you that I am glad that they are not. Even more so when it comes to AI. I can just imagine a bunch of tech giants coming in, generating a tonne of content, and then suing everyone to make money.

 

[1QD]

Which is also to say that ppl will recognize when genuine effort has been put into making something.

A thoughtful perspective and to further your point, I was at a convention showing my work. One of the people who saw, and test played it, went into my local print show where I used to get my prints. At the time I had an order there and he saw and recognized my cover. My printer later told me about the event and how excited he was.