Planar Handbook Chat Log

[Shemeska]

I missed some of the initial two questions because I accidentally cleared my chat buffer. But here's the questions and the answers we got, it's just the raw text posted without comment, not too heavily cleaned up. The first question was about why they made the Lady of Pain LN. This was followed by something along the line of 'Too many Planescape questions, the book is about more than that.' from wotc_andy. There was another question following that about if the book contained any apic level material, then my log picks up:

"Go ahead, Tomu."

wotc_andy says, "No stats for epic-level unique foes--look to Book of Vile Darkness and Book of Exalted Deeds for those."

tomu_the_king_of_dms says, "And ga/"

wotc_bruce says, "That's right--not really an epic thrust for this book. /ga"
koa_loquay leaves, heading for The Lobby.

stormforge says, "?"

wotc_andy says, "Writing content for characters of levels 15+ just isn't a high priority for most of our D&D products. It's just too hard to predict what players and DMs at those levels want."

bbpunk123 enters.

chance87 enters.

wotc_andy says, "We can take weeks and weeks to write a cool epic adventure or a collection of epic monsters, and what we hear from fans is, "My epic campaign isn't like that, so that stuff is useless to me.""

wotc_bruce says, "I'd say the majority of this book is aimed at 3rd to 13th level players, though of course there is info for players through 20th level."

bbpunk123 says, "hey guys i have a question"

wotc_andy says, "Certainly, when my last campaign got up to high levels, I found it harder and harder to use existing D&D material, even stuff that was aimed at those levels. /ga"

chance87 leaves.

wotc_gwendolyn says, "Epic campaigns are so often specifically crafted to suit the needs of the specfic players and DMs./ga"

wizo_unicorn says, "Baloo, your question?"

chance87 enters.

baloo says, "Not directly related to the book at hand, but... any plans on making a planar monster book, presenting a larger variety of those major planar races that has been sort of ignored (a handful of creatures across about a dozen books)? I mean monsters like yugoloth, as well as the celestial types. And the Fiend Folio doesn't count, that's one of those that only give a few examples. /ga."

bbpunk123 says, "during playing magic the gathering....if u play an enchantment, does it tap when u want to use it?"

wotc_andy says, "I'd say that any plans to follow up with another planar-themed book are going to weigh heavily on the sales of Planar Handbook."
wotc_andy says, "/ga"

taski says, "?"

wotc_bruce says, "Never say never! But, nothing like that appears on the catalogue of upcomming products. As you say, though, this is a rich area, and who knows what the future could bring. /ga"

wotc_bruce says, "Never say never! But, nothing like that appears on the catalogue of upcomming products. As you say, though, this is a rich area, and who knows what the future could bring. /ga"

wotc_gwendolyn says, "The upcoming MMIII has some cool outsiders, but it isn't a planar-focused group/ga"

wizo_unicorn says, "Shem, your question?"

bbpunk123 leaves, heading for The Lobby.

shemeska says, "First of all as one of the writers for Planewalker.com I have to extend a thank you for the inclusion of Faction material, Sigil, and other references from Planescape. As for my question though, why no mention of the Modrons? We only had a tiny reference to them in the MotP, and while there was a web enhancement giving them stats, they've gotten remarkably little exposure despite being the dominant exemplar race of Mechanus."

tomu_the_king_of_dms says, "?"

wotc_andy says, "Modrons, modrons, modrons...the D&D team decided early on in 3E design & development that modrons didn't reflect the direction that we wanted the game to be heading in."

wotc_andy says, "While there are no doubt plenty of ways to portray modrons as something other than goofy-looking polyhedrons, that's a very hard sell."

shemeska says, "..."

wotc_bruce says, "We decided to give more time and development to formorians--those who enjoy modrons have an incredible number of sources to draw upon in regard to them."

wotc_andy says, "The vast majority of players and DMs who see modrons think, "oh, a sentient six-sided die with legs, that's just silly." Fair or not, it's certainly the perception we've gotten from the customers. /ga"

shemeska says, "..... /ga"

wotc_bruce says, "ga"

wotc_andy says, "Bruce means formians, not the Huge giants recently featured in the D&D Minis line. : ) /ga"

wizo_unicorn says, "Stormforge, your question?"

stormforge says, "this might be a little off the wall but with such a focused handbook could you sort of incorporate a spelljammer like campaign or setting with the planar handbook as a major source where you could go between prime material worlds, say from Toril to Greyhawk or homespun worlds?/ga"

wotc_bruce says, "That's correct! "

shemeska says, "?"

stormforge says, "sweet"

wotc_andy says, "I don't see any reason why you couldn't."

wotc_andy says, "Between the Planar Handbook and the Manual of the Planes, you'd have an amazing wealth of tools at your disposal for creating an inter-planar campaign of any variety."

wotc_andy says, "/ga"

wotc_gwendolyn says, "Absolutely! The book has a great scope and it would be easy to create different "worlds/planes" for a Spelljammer setting. A clever idea./ga"

wizo_unicorn says, "Gray, your question?"

grayrichardson says, "Does it look like WOTC will greenlight any more planar books or adventures in the near future? Or even the not so near future? How does WOTC feel about the planes in general? I vote for a Forgotten Realms planar handbook!"

stormforge leaves, heading for The Lobby.

wotc_andy says, "The recent Player's Guide to Faerun had some information about Toril's cosmology, but I don't know of any plans to go into it in more depth."

wotc_bruce says, "As Andy said a little earlier, that will depend on the sales of Planar Handbook. It is certainly possible, though."

wotc_andy says, "Every time a book takes a step away from the core concepts of the game, sadly, sales decline significantly. Doing a niche of a niche (such as "planes of Toril") is a risky product."

bbpunk123 enters.

wotc_andy says, "Personally, I love the planes. Both Bruce and I put our Adventure Path modules on the planes, which shows our attachment to the concept of planar adventuring."

wotc_andy says, "/ga"

wotc_gwendolyn says, "Sales influence product line decisions. If the book does well, that serves as a nice support for related books in the future., but as Andy says Planes of Toril might been too narrow an audience./ga"

wotc_bruce says, "True--it'd have to be a product that had a wider net. /ga"

wizo_unicorn says, "Taski, your question?"

taski says, "how feasible is it for the astral plane to have native creatures, or creatures that once came to the plane and evolved over eons to become unique creatures in their own right?"

wotc_andy says, "Above all else, if we (meaning Wizards of the Coast) perceive a demand for a product, we'll find a way to make it happen, so don't hesitate to "talk it up" about product concepts. /ga"

grayrichardson says, "?"

shemeska says, "!"

wotc_bruce says, "Completely feasible. We have examples of such creatures in various books, I believe."

bbpunk123 says, "oh oh oh!!! i have a very important question!"

wotc_andy says, "Seems totally feasible to me. While it's true that no creatures should be "truly" native to the Astral, after a long enough time anything's possible, particularly in a world of magical fantasy."

viewcam1 leaves.

wotc_gwendolyn says, "We have the concept in the core books with the Astral Stalker (I believe without the book in front of me to double-check)/ga"

wizo_unicorn says, "Shem, your comment?"

shemeska says, "Speaking of demand, the 2nd hand market for Planescape material on Ebay etc is absolutely fierce and bloated. You'd think that more attention might be paid considering how popular it sppears to be. OOP material goes for double to triple original price or more..."

tomu_the_king_of_dms says, "!"

shemeska says, "/ga"

taski says, "?"

wotc_bruce says, "Heh--more evidence of my annecdotal experience that Planar Handbook is doing well /ga"

wizo_unicorn says, "Tomu, your comment?"

wotc_andy says, "Wizards tries to be very careful about adding new product lines. Having too many "branches" in the D&D product line is one of the things that killed TSR."

the_storm says, "?"

tomu_the_king_of_dms says, "My own guess is that Planescape material sells better on eBay BECAUSE it's discontinued. If there was new up to date stuff, I'd guess it might not sell so well <Runs off to get old planescape stuff."

wotc_andy says, "Most people here feel that creating new lines, rather than returning to old ones, has a better chance of bringing a large number of interested customers. /ga"

wotc_gwendolyn says, "Planescape fans also have a great resouce with Planewalker.com /ga"

weeds_omaha says, "!"

shemeska smiles at Gwen

bbpunk123 leaves, heading for RPG Live.

wizo_unicorn says, "Weeds, your comment?"

wotc_bruce says, "The print runs of the original Planescape material wasn't especially large, either--demand is fierce, but supply is limited."

weeds_omaha says, "The Planar Handbook was not what I was expecting it to be. Relying to heavily on Feats and Prestige classes to fill a void of detailed content. We have been overloaded with them!!! Sorry if that seemed rude didnt want to be too wordy. /ga"

the_real_stan enters.

wotc_andy says, "I'm not sure why you expected something billed as a player's resource to be something else."

wotc_andy says, "Sure, the book could have been nothing but adventure hooks and weird planar sites, but that's really a DM's book, not a player's book."

tomu_the_king_of_dms says, "!"

wotc_bruce says, "Weeds, the book wasn't meant to be another DM's sourcebook on new areas--it was for players (although there is certainly DM content). I'm sorry you were looking for somethign different. But players have been finding it very useful."

bbpunk123 enters.

wotc_bruce says, "That said, the planar touchstone feats double is weird new sites, actually. It fits both bills."

wotc_andy says, "And even with that caveat, note that creatures and planar sites take up nearly half the book, which seems like a good amount of resources for the DM."

wotc_gwendolyn says, "It is a question of audience and expectations. It's intent was always to be a book for players to _use_ (not just for DMs and not just for reading).Even the planartouchstones are cool places for players to visit)/ga"

wotc_bruce says, "(where is my grammar checker?) "

wotc_andy says, "And on top of that there are the new races (with plenty of hooks for DM inventiveness), the organizations (ditto), etc., etc.... /ga"

weeds_omaha leaves.

baloo says, "?"

wizo_unicorn says, "Tomu, you're up for your question. If you'd like to make your comment first, feel free."

wizo_unicorn says, "(The questions queue is now closed, with Baloo having the last question.)"

weeds_omaha enters.

tomu_the_king_of_dms says, "Comment: would it be safe to say then that the Planar Handbook is the player equivalent of the DM source Manual of the planes? And my question is, is there any reference to the old Planescape "Cant" in the book?"

tomu_the_king_of_dms says, ". /ga"

bbpunk123 leaves, heading for The Lobby.

wotc_andy says, "That's certainly one way I've been using to describe it. While it's not 100% accurate--just as there's player stuff in MotP, there's DM stuff in Planar HB--it's close enough to the truth to be a useful comparison."

tomu_the_king_of_dms says, "Prestige classes in the DMG doesn't make it a player sourcebook."

bbpunk123 enters.

wotc_bruce says, "Tomu, the book at least seeks to empower players with tools, classes, races, and goals for seeking the planes. Of course, as with all things, the DM is the final arbiter..."

wotc_andy says, "I don't believe that there's any mention of Cant in the book--Sigil's description tries to focus on material that's immediately crucial to a DM looking to use it in his game, and thus can't go into as much detail as that would require."

wotc_gwendolyn says, "It is very player-focused but DMs will definitely find new ways to bring the players to the planes and the planes to the players. There isn't any cant in the book's text; I can't say that there isn't a reference to it, though. *smil"

wotc_gwendolyn says, "*smile*/ga"

wotc_bruce says, "As far as the cant goes, if it is in there at all, it is only as a description of the vernacular that is often utilized in sigil--that voice is not used as an authorial voice in the book."

wotc_bruce says, "ga"

wotc_andy says, "I'm going to disagree with you, tomu. I think that the prestige classes and magic items in the DMG very much contribute to its popularity among players as a reference tool/sourcebook. While it's true that the sense of entitlement to something in the DMG isn't as high as it would be if it were in the PH, it's still a "source of material" for players. /ga"

wizo_unicorn says, "Jaerc, your quesiton?"

jaerc says, "In your opinions what is/are the best thing/s to happen to the bard in the Planar Handbook."

jaerc says, "?/ga"

wotc_andy says, "Certainly the bard planar substitution levels add some interesting flavor for a bard who spends lots of time on the planes, though I'm not sure they're the first thing a bard would notice in flipping through this book."

wotc_bruce says, "Well, the bard gets some "substitution" levels, if that's what you mean. It provides the bard with some new abilities keyed toward planar adventures."

wotc_andy says, "There are a few new bard spells of interest, including beastland ferocity (subject fights without penalty while disabled or dying)."

wotc_bruce says, "The concept of substitution levels debuts in this book, as well, but all the classes share in its"

wotc_bruce says, "novelty/ga"

wotc_gwendolyn says, "Well, one interesting option that the bard has for a prestige class is the Ardent Dilettante (tied to the Society of Sensation). It captures much of the flavor of the plane-traveling storyteller. It requires multiclassing with progressive prerequisites, but bards should find it a natural fit."

wotc_andy says, "And a bard who likes to summon creatures has some new options thanks to the Monsters chapter, as well. /ga"

wizo_unicorn says, "Shem, your question?"

You say, "The book mentions that inside the mazes you can die of starvation or old age. However the one previous look inside a maze, the maze of Vartus Timlin, former factol of the Expansionists (in 'Well of Worlds') had him being fed daily and not aging a day within the maze, despite being sent there hundreds of year before he escaped. Any reasoning there, or are we to assume that Timlin's maze, and perhaps all of them, are unique unto themselves in every case for each person mazed?"

You say, "which is how I'd rationalize it /ga"

wotc_bruce says, "I've always regarded each maze as potentially different from the next."

wotc_andy says, "As we've stated earlier, this book isn't setting out to recreate the Planescape setting. For obvious reasons of space, we can't delve into every detail that's been used before. I think it's safe to say that every maze is unique, even though we don't call that out specifically here. /ga"

wotc_bruce says, "That makes for more interesting fiction, and game settings./ga"

wizo_unicorn says, "Gray, your question?"

You say, "!"

grayrichardson says, "On page 77 the description of the Mechanus Eye says it is salvaged from an extinct planar race that used to control the plane. Is this a wink towards the Modrons, are they all dead now? Or another race?"

wotc_andy says, "; )"

wotc_andy says, "/ga"

grayrichardson says, "heh heh"

wotc_gwendolyn says, ""Purportedly" It gives a DM lots of wiggle room./ga"

wotc_bruce says, "The reace is referred to as "demolished" not extinct. That might be overstating things, if indeed this is a reference to modrons ."

grayrichardson says, "Care to share any speculations as to what happened with them?"

weeds_omaha leaves.

weeds_omaha enters.

wotc_andy says, "I don't know that any such speculations have occurred. In fact, maybe it didn't happen at all. /ga"

wotc_gwendolyn says, "No comment./ga"

wizo_unicorn says, "Shem, your comment?"

wotc_andy says, "Although you could probably cast some blame on the uber-deities JoT, MoCo, and SkWill. : ) /ga"

You say, "I didn't expect it to recreate the Planescape setting, but when it deviates from the material that forms the basis for it, I get curious for a reason. Even if it's just 'so and so didn't like it so...' Some little bones to speculate upon as in game reasons to work with"
You say, "/ga"

wotc_andy says, "Adherence to continuity is important, but we made a decision way back when we were writing FR for 3E that we couldn't be slaves to what had come before. We aim to get as much right as we can, but we can't require authors to read through a library of books just so they can write on a topic."

tomu_the_king_of_dms says, "!"

wotc_andy says, "It's really a case of diminishing returns: spend an extra week reading background material to glean one more tiny detail, but give up the 10,000 words you'd have written in that time? Just can't do it. /ga"

wotc_gwendolyn says, "This openness enables us to take the best and brightest of the jewels while making wholly new creations./ga"

celloshane enters.

wotc_bruce says, "Yep, we adhere to continuity whenever possible. Sometimes, it is not possible. Somtimes a reference is too obscure to ferret out. And sometimes, the decision is simply made to go a different way. /ga"

wizo_unicorn says, "Let's grant the designers a little latitude. "

wizo_unicorn says, "Taski, your question?"

wotc_gwendolyn says, "It's about the hour, and I won't be able to dally very long."

taski says, "now that I know there can be creatures unique to the astral plane (though not native to it), would it be feasible to have a spell to summon them out of the astral as allies?"

kalidor187 leaves.

wotc_bruce says, "taski, such a thing is quite possible, if you design it ."

wotc_andy says, "Sure. Just about any extraplanar creature (within reason) could feasibly be summoned, so I see no reason why a specific or general summoning spell couldn't do exactly that. /ga"

taski says, "cool, thanks"

wotc_andy says, "I think that spells that summon specific creatures are also more interesting to the game than uber-summoning spells, personally, and can afford to be a bit more powerful than the normal summon monster (since they're giving up versatility.) /ga"

wizo_unicorn says, "Since Gwen has to leave, let's have The Storm and Baloo put up their questions together, and the designers can adress replies as needed."

wotc_gwendolyn says, "There's an Astral Kraken, a CR 16 monster which lists the Astral Plan as its normal environment/ga"

the_storm says, "How many completely new Wiz/Sor spells are in the Planar Handbook?"

baloo says, "Does the Planar Handbook have anything concerning Eberron's cosmology, or is it all Great Wheel/Generic? /ga"

wotc_bruce says, "Between 50 and 70, at a very rough count, of completley new spells."

wotc_andy says, "I count 45 sor/wiz spells, of which I'd guess roughly 40 are brand new (a few are picked up from MotP or other sources, but not many). /ga"

bbpunk123 leaves, heading for The Lobby.

wotc_bruce says, "Ah, I was counting all spells."

wotc_andy says, "The Planar Handbook only tackles the core cosmology of D&D. I wouldn't be surprised to see Eberron's cosmology get more attention in the future, though probably as part of a larger book rather than as its own topic. /ga"

wotc_gwendolyn says, "Some highlights include resist planar alignment, locate touchstone, light of lunia, mechanus mind, belker claws, babau slime, balor nimbus, infernal wound, wall of gears, and miasma of entropy./ga"

celloshane leaves.

the_storm says, "Excellent!"

wotc_bruce says, "A lot of the material in Planar Handbook could be used in the Eberron setting, though Eberron is never called out, and there are no Eberron specific sites in the book."

wizo_unicorn says, "Okay, that's it for tonight, folks! Andy, Bruce, Gwendolyn, thank you VERY much for chatting with us tonight. I know folks are going to love the book!"

wotc_andy says, "Good point, Bruce. There's no reason you couldn't steal Acheron-themed material for a similarly themed plane in Eberron (I'm pretty sure there's a battlefield plane in there somewhere, but the book's not handy). /ga"

wizo_blue claps

the_storm bows gracefully.

weeds_omaha says, "Thanks"

wotc_andy says, "You're welcome, unicorn. Good questions, folks. I hope you enjoy reading (and, more to the point, using) the material in Planar Handbook."

zouron leaves, heading for The Lobby.

jaerc applaudes

wizo_unicorn says, "And thanks everyone for attending tonight!"

shemeska bows to the authors

tomu_the_king_of_dms says, "Hooray for the developers! When I grow up, I wanna be JUST like you =D"

wotc_gwendolyn says, "Always nice to talk about the book. Loved working on it! Hope you enjoy it./ga"

wotc_andy says, "Well, tomu, drink lots of soda and eat plenty of chips and pizza and you'll be on your way. /ga"

tomu_the_king_of_dms says, "Been there, done that <chugs a 2 liter a day>"
wotc_bruce says, "Thanks all. This was fun. I hope everyone enjoys the book--make sure you go find a touchstone site to call your very own ;-)."

the_real_stan says, "Don't forget BBQ ... eat lots of BBQ ... ;^)"

wotc_andy says, "You said, it, Stan!"

grayrichardson says, "thanks guys! You're the best!"

tomu_the_king_of_dms says, "Back to planning my extraplanar epic campaign I suppose..."

taski says, "i'll be sure to poke around my bookstores for a copy"

wotc_andy says, "Lookit that, folks, another Planar Handbook designer lurking!"

jaerc says, "Mob him! "

wotc_bruce says, "Stan!"

the_real_stan lurk lurk

wotc_bruce says, "Stan!"

shemeska dives back to her 2 year long Planescape game

wotc_gwendolyn says, "Most of us will be at GenCon if you're hunting down signatures. /ga"

wizo_unicorn says, "And designers, please drop in on RPG Live whenever you have time...to folks would love to see you!"

tomu_the_king_of_dms has no transportation for GenCon. Or money. Or... anything.

the_real_stan says, "Hi, Bruce"

wizo_blue starts to put the chairs up

wotc_andy says, "Bye, everybody! Time to grab dinner and then head to the computer for a little... city of heroes..."

wizo_unicorn says, "Stan! used to do that all the time... "

wizo_blue waves

tomu_the_king_of_dms says, "Heh. I need to get that game just to ask you DnD related questions now Andy ;P"

wotc_gwendolyn leaves.

the_real_stan says, "Then my head got too big to fit through the virtual door"

wotc_bruce says, "Howdy--too bad we didn't know you were here--you could have answered some of the zingers ;-)"

wotc_andy leaves.

wotc_bruce says, "Gotta go. Bye!"

taski leaves.

 

[Chronosome]

Cool. Thanks, Shemeska.

 

[Joker[ZW]]

*sniff*
they killed the Modrons



At least now PC can tell his Players, that all Modrons are now dead because the didn't investigate the Modrons march

 

[Piratecat]

I pared it down to just the Q&A, if that's easier to read. Thanks for posting this!

-- o --

I missed some of the initial two questions because I accidentally cleared my chat buffer. But here's the questions and the answers we got, it's just the raw text posted without comment, not too heavily cleaned up. The first question was about why they made the Lady of Pain LN. This was followed by something along the line of 'Too many Planescape questions, the book is about more than that.' from wotc_andy. There was another question following that about if the book contained any apic level material, then my log picks up:

"Go ahead, Tomu."

wotc_andy says, "No stats for epic-level unique foes--look to Book of Vile Darkness and Book of Exalted Deeds for those."

wotc_bruce says, "That's right--not really an epic thrust for this book. /ga"

wotc_andy says, "Writing content for characters of levels 15+ just isn't a high priority for most of our D&D products. It's just too hard to predict what players and DMs at those levels want."

wotc_andy says, "We can take weeks and weeks to write a cool epic adventure or a collection of epic monsters, and what we hear from fans is, "My epic campaign isn't like that, so that stuff is useless to me.""

wotc_bruce says, "I'd say the majority of this book is aimed at 3rd to 13th level players, though of course there is info for players through 20th level."

wotc_andy says, "Certainly, when my last campaign got up to high levels, I found it harder and harder to use existing D&D material, even stuff that was aimed at those levels. /ga"

wotc_gwendolyn says, "Epic campaigns are so often specifically crafted to suit the needs of the specfic players and DMs./ga"

baloo says, "Not directly related to the book at hand, but... any plans on making a planar monster book, presenting a larger variety of those major planar races that has been sort of ignored (a handful of creatures across about a dozen books)? I mean monsters like yugoloth, as well as the celestial types. And the Fiend Folio doesn't count, that's one of those that only give a few examples. /ga."

wotc_andy says, "I'd say that any plans to follow up with another planar-themed book are going to weigh heavily on the sales of Planar Handbook."

wotc_bruce says, "Never say never! But, nothing like that appears on the catalogue of upcomming products. As you say, though, this is a rich area, and who knows what the future could bring. /ga"

wotc_gwendolyn says, "The upcoming MMIII has some cool outsiders, but it isn't a planar-focused group/ga"

shemeska says, "First of all as one of the writers for Planewalker.com I have to extend a thank you for the inclusion of Faction material, Sigil, and other references from Planescape. As for my question though, why no mention of the Modrons? We only had a tiny reference to them in the MotP, and while there was a web enhancement giving them stats, they've gotten remarkably little exposure despite being the dominant exemplar race of Mechanus."

wotc_andy says, "Modrons, modrons, modrons...the D&D team decided early on in 3E design & development that modrons didn't reflect the direction that we wanted the game to be heading in."

wotc_andy says, "While there are no doubt plenty of ways to portray modrons as something other than goofy-looking polyhedrons, that's a very hard sell."

shemeska says, "..."

wotc_bruce says, "We decided to give more time and development to formorians--those who enjoy modrons have an incredible number of sources to draw upon in regard to them."

wotc_andy says, "The vast majority of players and DMs who see modrons think, "oh, a sentient six-sided die with legs, that's just silly." Fair or not, it's certainly the perception we've gotten from the customers. /ga"

wotc_andy says, "Bruce means formians, not the Huge giants recently featured in the D&D Minis line. : ) /ga"

stormforge says, "this might be a little off the wall but with such a focused handbook could you sort of incorporate a spelljammer like campaign or setting with the planar handbook as a major source where you could go between prime material worlds, say from Toril to Greyhawk or homespun worlds?/ga"

wotc_bruce says, "That's correct! "

wotc_andy says, "I don't see any reason why you couldn't."

wotc_andy says, "Between the Planar Handbook and the Manual of the Planes, you'd have an amazing wealth of tools at your disposal for creating an inter-planar campaign of any variety."

wotc_gwendolyn says, "Absolutely! The book has a great scope and it would be easy to create different "worlds/planes" for a Spelljammer setting. A clever idea./ga"

grayrichardson says, "Does it look like WOTC will greenlight any more planar books or adventures in the near future? Or even the not so near future? How does WOTC feel about the planes in general? I vote for a Forgotten Realms planar handbook!"

wotc_andy says, "The recent Player's Guide to Faerun had some information about Toril's cosmology, but I don't know of any plans to go into it in more depth."

wotc_bruce says, "As Andy said a little earlier, that will depend on the sales of Planar Handbook. It is certainly possible, though."

wotc_andy says, "Every time a book takes a step away from the core concepts of the game, sadly, sales decline significantly. Doing a niche of a niche (such as "planes of Toril") is a risky product."

wotc_andy says, "Personally, I love the planes. Both Bruce and I put our Adventure Path modules on the planes, which shows our attachment to the concept of planar adventuring."

wotc_gwendolyn says, "Sales influence product line decisions. If the book does well, that serves as a nice support for related books in the future., but as Andy says Planes of Toril might been too narrow an audience./ga"

wotc_bruce says, "True--it'd have to be a product that had a wider net. /ga"

taski says, "how feasible is it for the astral plane to have native creatures, or creatures that once came to the plane and evolved over eons to become unique creatures in their own right?"

wotc_andy says, "Above all else, if we (meaning Wizards of the Coast) perceive a demand for a product, we'll find a way to make it happen, so don't hesitate to "talk it up" about product concepts. /ga"

wotc_bruce says, "Completely feasible. We have examples of such creatures in various books, I believe."

wotc_andy says, "Seems totally feasible to me. While it's true that no creatures should be "truly" native to the Astral, after a long enough time anything's possible, particularly in a world of magical fantasy."

wotc_gwendolyn says, "We have the concept in the core books with the Astral Stalker (I believe without the book in front of me to double-check)/ga"

shemeska says, "Speaking of demand, the 2nd hand market for Planescape material on Ebay etc is absolutely fierce and bloated. You'd think that more attention might be paid considering how popular it sppears to be. OOP material goes for double to triple original price or more..."

wotc_bruce says, "Heh--more evidence of my annecdotal experience that Planar Handbook is doing well /ga"

wotc_andy says, "Wizards tries to be very careful about adding new product lines. Having too many "branches" in the D&D product line is one of the things that killed TSR."

tomu_the_king_of_dms says, "My own guess is that Planescape material sells better on eBay BECAUSE it's discontinued. If there was new up to date stuff, I'd guess it might not sell so well <Runs off to get old planescape stuff."

wotc_andy says, "Most people here feel that creating new lines, rather than returning to old ones, has a better chance of bringing a large number of interested customers. /ga"

wotc_gwendolyn says, "Planescape fans also have a great resouce with Planewalker.com /ga"

wotc_bruce says, "The print runs of the original Planescape material wasn't especially large, either--demand is fierce, but supply is limited."

weeds_omaha says, "The Planar Handbook was not what I was expecting it to be. Relying to heavily on Feats and Prestige classes to fill a void of detailed content. We have been overloaded with them!!! Sorry if that seemed rude didnt want to be too wordy. /ga"

wotc_andy says, "I'm not sure why you expected something billed as a player's resource to be something else."

wotc_andy says, "Sure, the book could have been nothing but adventure hooks and weird planar sites, but that's really a DM's book, not a player's book."

wotc_bruce says, "Weeds, the book wasn't meant to be another DM's sourcebook on new areas--it was for players (although there is certainly DM content). I'm sorry you were looking for somethign different. But players have been finding it very useful."

wotc_bruce says, "That said, the planar touchstone feats double is weird new sites, actually. It fits both bills."

wotc_andy says, "And even with that caveat, note that creatures and planar sites take up nearly half the book, which seems like a good amount of resources for the DM."

wotc_gwendolyn says, "It is a question of audience and expectations. It's intent was always to be a book for players to _use_ (not just for DMs and not just for reading).Even the planartouchstones are cool places for players to visit)/ga"

wotc_bruce says, "(where is my grammar checker?) "

wotc_andy says, "And on top of that there are the new races (with plenty of hooks for DM inventiveness), the organizations (ditto), etc., etc.... /ga"

wizo_unicorn says, "Tomu, you're up for your question. If you'd like to make your comment first, feel free."

tomu_the_king_of_dms says, "Comment: would it be safe to say then that the Planar Handbook is the player equivalent of the DM source Manual of the planes? And my question is, is there any reference to the old Planescape "Cant" in the book?"

wotc_andy says, "That's certainly one way I've been using to describe it. While it's not 100% accurate--just as there's player stuff in MotP, there's DM stuff in Planar HB--it's close enough to the truth to be a useful comparison."

tomu_the_king_of_dms says, "Prestige classes in the DMG doesn't make it a player sourcebook."

wotc_bruce says, "Tomu, the book at least seeks to empower players with tools, classes, races, and goals for seeking the planes. Of course, as with all things, the DM is the final arbiter..."

wotc_andy says, "I don't believe that there's any mention of Cant in the book--Sigil's description tries to focus on material that's immediately crucial to a DM looking to use it in his game, and thus can't go into as much detail as that would require."

wotc_gwendolyn says, "It is very player-focused but DMs will definitely find new ways to bring the players to the planes and the planes to the players. There isn't any cant in the book's text; I can't say that there isn't a reference to it, though. *smile"

wotc_bruce says, "As far as the cant goes, if it is in there at all, it is only as a description of the vernacular that is often utilized in sigil--that voice is not used as an authorial voice in the book."

wotc_andy says, "I'm going to disagree with you, tomu. I think that the prestige classes and magic items in the DMG very much contribute to its popularity among players as a reference tool/sourcebook. While it's true that the sense of entitlement to something in the DMG isn't as high as it would be if it were in the PH, it's still a "source of material" for players. /ga"

jaerc says, "In your opinions what is/are the best thing/s to happen to the bard in the Planar Handbook."

wotc_andy says, "Certainly the bard planar substitution levels add some interesting flavor for a bard who spends lots of time on the planes, though I'm not sure they're the first thing a bard would notice in flipping through this book."

wotc_bruce says, "Well, the bard gets some "substitution" levels, if that's what you mean. It provides the bard with some new abilities keyed toward planar adventures."

wotc_andy says, "There are a few new bard spells of interest, including beastland ferocity (subject fights without penalty while disabled or dying)."

wotc_bruce says, "The concept of substitution levels debuts in this book, as well, but all the classes share in its"

wotc_bruce says, "novelty/ga"

wotc_gwendolyn says, "Well, one interesting option that the bard has for a prestige class is the Ardent Dilettante (tied to the Society of Sensation). It captures much of the flavor of the plane-traveling storyteller. It requires multiclassing with progressive prerequisites, but bards should find it a natural fit."

wotc_andy says, "And a bard who likes to summon creatures has some new options thanks to the Monsters chapter, as well. /ga"

wizo_unicorn says, "Shem, your question?"

You say, "The book mentions that inside the mazes you can die of starvation or old age. However the one previous look inside a maze, the maze of Vartus Timlin, former factol of the Expansionists (in 'Well of Worlds') had him being fed daily and not aging a day within the maze, despite being sent there hundreds of year before he escaped. Any reasoning there, or are we to assume that Timlin's maze, and perhaps all of them, are unique unto themselves in every case for each person mazed?"

You say, "which is how I'd rationalize it /ga"

wotc_bruce says, "I've always regarded each maze as potentially different from the next."

wotc_andy says, "As we've stated earlier, this book isn't setting out to recreate the Planescape setting. For obvious reasons of space, we can't delve into every detail that's been used before. I think it's safe to say that every maze is unique, even though we don't call that out specifically here. /ga"

wotc_bruce says, "That makes for more interesting fiction, and game settings./ga"

grayrichardson says, "On page 77 the description of the Mechanus Eye says it is salvaged from an extinct planar race that used to control the plane. Is this a wink towards the Modrons, are they all dead now? Or another race?"

wotc_andy says, "; )"

grayrichardson says, "heh heh"

wotc_gwendolyn says, ""Purportedly" It gives a DM lots of wiggle room./ga"

wotc_bruce says, "The race is referred to as "demolished" not extinct. That might be overstating things, if indeed this is a reference to modrons ."

grayrichardson says, "Care to share any speculations as to what happened with them?"

wotc_andy says, "I don't know that any such speculations have occurred. In fact, maybe it didn't happen at all. /ga"

wotc_gwendolyn says, "No comment./ga"

wizo_unicorn says, "Shem, your comment?"

wotc_andy says, "Although you could probably cast some blame on the uber-deities JoT, MoCo, and SkWill. : ) /ga"

You say, "I didn't expect it to recreate the Planescape setting, but when it deviates from the material that forms the basis for it, I get curious for a reason. Even if it's just 'so and so didn't like it so...' Some little bones to speculate upon as in game reasons to work with"
You say, "/ga"

wotc_andy says, "Adherence to continuity is important, but we made a decision way back when we were writing FR for 3E that we couldn't be slaves to what had come before. We aim to get as much right as we can, but we can't require authors to read through a library of books just so they can write on a topic."

wotc_andy says, "It's really a case of diminishing returns: spend an extra week reading background material to glean one more tiny detail, but give up the 10,000 words you'd have written in that time? Just can't do it. /ga"

wotc_gwendolyn says, "This openness enables us to take the best and brightest of the jewels while making wholly new creations./ga"

wotc_bruce says, "Yep, we adhere to continuity whenever possible. Sometimes, it is not possible. Somtimes a reference is too obscure to ferret out. And sometimes, the decision is simply made to go a different way. /ga"

wizo_unicorn says, "Let's grant the designers a little latitude. "

taski says, "now that I know there can be creatures unique to the astral plane (though not native to it), would it be feasible to have a spell to summon them out of the astral as allies?"

wotc_bruce says, "taski, such a thing is quite possible, if you design it ."

wotc_andy says, "Sure. Just about any extraplanar creature (within reason) could feasibly be summoned, so I see no reason why a specific or general summoning spell couldn't do exactly that. /ga"

wotc_andy says, "I think that spells that summon specific creatures are also more interesting to the game than uber-summoning spells, personally, and can afford to be a bit more powerful than the normal summon monster (since they're giving up versatility.) /ga"

wizo_unicorn says, "Since Gwen has to leave, let's have The Storm and Baloo put up their questions together, and the designers can adress replies as needed."

wotc_gwendolyn says, "There's an Astral Kraken, a CR 16 monster which lists the Astral Plan as its normal environment/ga"

the_storm says, "How many completely new Wiz/Sor spells are in the Planar Handbook?"

baloo says, "Does the Planar Handbook have anything concerning Eberron's cosmology, or is it all Great Wheel/Generic? /ga"

wotc_bruce says, "Between 50 and 70, at a very rough count, of completley new spells."

wotc_andy says, "I count 45 sor/wiz spells, of which I'd guess roughly 40 are brand new (a few are picked up from MotP or other sources, but not many). /ga"

wotc_bruce says, "Ah, I was counting all spells."

wotc_andy says, "The Planar Handbook only tackles the core cosmology of D&D. I wouldn't be surprised to see Eberron's cosmology get more attention in the future, though probably as part of a larger book rather than as its own topic. /ga"

wotc_gwendolyn says, "Some highlights include resist planar alignment, locate touchstone, light of lunia, mechanus mind, belker claws, babau slime, balor nimbus, infernal wound, wall of gears, and miasma of entropy./ga"

wotc_bruce says, "A lot of the material in Planar Handbook could be used in the Eberron setting, though Eberron is never called out, and there are no Eberron specific sites in the book."

wizo_unicorn says, "Okay, that's it for tonight, folks! Andy, Bruce, Gwendolyn, thank you VERY much for chatting with us tonight. I know folks are going to love the book!"

wotc_andy says, "Good point, Bruce. There's no reason you couldn't steal Acheron-themed material for a similarly themed plane in Eberron (I'm pretty sure there's a battlefield plane in there somewhere, but the book's not handy). /ga"

 

[Shemeska]

LN exemplars don't die, they just fade away...

I don't think they killed off the modrons from anything that was said. Is it clear that we're not likely to get any more material on them with the current crop of designers? Probably yes. Is it clear that at least one person there simply doesn't like them? That's clear from the chat I think.

Suffice to say, I don't buy the reasons, nor the anecdotes, given for the lack of Modrons in 3e. Far as I'm concerned they're still in Mechanus squashing twisted refugee ants from Arcadia that are inexplicably expansionist. And they're still marching every hundred cycles just to be a thorn in PCs side when his players ignore them.

 

[Psion]

I don't think they killed off the modrons from anything that was said. Is it clear that we're not likely to get any more material on them with the current crop of designers? Probably yes. Is it clear that at least one person there simply doesn't like them? That's clear from the chat I think.

So it would seem.

When the MotP came up, they were surprised at the backlash there was to see Modrons omitted and marginalized... and Grubb laughed at his fellow designers who fought for their exclusion, one of which was Cordell.

Cordell is one of my favorite authors, but every time I see him doe something for Planescape/the official planes, the more it become obvious to me that they don't mix.

The other question I would have is why we got Mephlings instead of Genasi.

Sadly, this book probably finalizes my decision to ditch Planescape as a setting. It seems obvious to me that they will never truly support it in any way I won't find disheartening.

 

[Shemeska]

So it would seem.

When the MotP came up, they were surprised at the backlash there was to see Modrons omitted and marginalized... and Grubb laughed at his fellow designers who fought for their exclusion, one of which was Cordell.

Heh, I'd heard that the reason we got the MotP web enhancement with Modrons in it was directly because of that backlash. Interesting what you say there.

Don't get me wrong, I really like Cordell's work, starting with 'Guide to the Ethereal' which was gorgeous, and 'Underdark' which I really enjoyed. However I think it's less him in any way, than the half hearted treatment the Planescape material has gotten from WotC that makes the newer material pale in comparison like a jaundiced child compared to an Olympic triathelete.

I'll keep on playing Planescape the way it was and adding my own little quirks to it. It'll stay alive regardless of whether or not WotC gives it the time of day. I'm happy for at least mention of the older material in the newer books though, some people over there are at least still trying. And for them, I have to say I appreciate it dearly.

 

[Piratecat]

Not to worry, my friend -- I have plans. Heh heh heh.

 

[Krypter]

Dangnabbit, I missed the chat because I couldn't log in. Too bad about modrons. I was never partial to them myself, but the little critters grow on ya, and they worked quite well in Planescape Torment.

Well, at least that's settled then. Planescape isn't coming back, Hell or high water. Neither are modrons. It's up to the fan community to keep things alive.

But the Planar Handbook is a step in the right direction if it persuades new players to try a jaunt on the planes. Perhaps then they'll start buying old planescape titles, and asking WotC to do more books, and someday we'll have a new planescape, complete with new grumpsters complaining about how this-and-that is missing or ill-conceived.

I'll still be running Planescape, old-school, whatever happens.

 

[Pants]

The other question I would have is why we got Mephlings instead of Genasi.

They've been featured in two books already and either wanted to do something new or didn't want to reprint the old material.

and they worked quite well in Planescape Torment.

As comic relief.
Honestly, has anyone ever run a modron as something other than a big, geometrical joke?