Planar Handbook Chat Log
- Thread starter Shemeska
- Start date
Clueless
Webmonkey
And this - from a game Shemmie did *not* run I can assure you of... Never. Ever. Ever. Say "good luck!" to a modron. They take it real personal like. If the GM is willing to treat a mechanical race seriously - the players will too.Shemeska said:
(As another look at this... if you've never had trouble with the borg, or AIs in Star Trek. Or with any mechanical race in a sci-fi game, you really shouldn't have any trouble with the modrons - which are - in effect the same thing. They simply used an imminently logical and rigid geometric shape for themselves as opposed to the horrificly non-logical bipedal humanoid form.)
TroyXavier
First Post
I loved Modrons, and they were never a joke in my campaigns. Even without WOTC's help I plan on using a Modron in my upcoming Astral Plane game.
Chronosome
Explorer
It's just as easy to make the Modrons alien horrors of ultimate law as it is to make them comic relief. Sometimes a goofy exterior can really throw people for a loop when the creature does something severe. I'm a big fan of funny-looking gone weird and oh-so-wrong...
I mean: picture a modron standing silently, examining an eviscerated trespassers of some sort of lawful shrine. Then notice that its funky metal bike-wheel legs* are coated in the trespassers' blood. Then jump as it notices you and quickly turns to eye you with cold, emotionless logic...
"LIVING OBJECT, YOU HAVE BEEN IDENTIFIED AS INCONGRUENT TO KNOWN LEVELS OF MODRON HEIRARCHY. DISPROVE OR END."
I dig that stuff. There are shades in the spectrum, of course.
____________
*The 2e modron, of course. The 1e modrons were drawn as "living dice".
I mean: picture a modron standing silently, examining an eviscerated trespassers of some sort of lawful shrine. Then notice that its funky metal bike-wheel legs* are coated in the trespassers' blood. Then jump as it notices you and quickly turns to eye you with cold, emotionless logic...
"LIVING OBJECT, YOU HAVE BEEN IDENTIFIED AS INCONGRUENT TO KNOWN LEVELS OF MODRON HEIRARCHY. DISPROVE OR END."
I dig that stuff. There are shades in the spectrum, of course.
____________
*The 2e modron, of course. The 1e modrons were drawn as "living dice".
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Pants
First Post
I have trouble with the Modrons for three reasons:Clueless said:
1) They look stupid. Utterly stupid. Not even DiTerlizzi could make them 'destupify.' The idea fits perfectly as a representation of ultimate law, but they still look ridiculously stupid.
2) My primary exposure to Modrons was through several sources, a short-lived PS campaign, Planescape: Torment, and the legions of online Modron fanboys. Unfortunately, none of these sources treated them as a 'serious' subject.
3) The aformentioned legions of Modron fanboys that, in my irrational subconscious desire to dislike anything popular, caused me to dislike them even more.
I also happen to think that a bunch of planar ants fit better as the lawful exemplar, without the whole 'stupid looking' part. Unfortunately, those ants just happen to be war-mongering expansionists that probably fit better on Acheron than on Mechanus.
Oh well...
The planar ants are supposed to be good aligned, that was why their existance in mechanus was such a problem for those of use who know the backstory. As for Modron being ridiculous, I hardly think so.
The lowest level of modron is indeed a cube. But that hardly goes for the rest of them, and some of those are pretty impressive. As for not taking Modrons seriously, that maybe what they want you to think. After all, if you think something is an overgrown toaster, you are hardly going to pay attention to it recording events, travelling, or anything else it might need to do. Another distrubing thing is the shear number of them, as they are a dime a dozen it seems. After all, 1 bug (or droid) trying to eat (or disassemble) you is a nuissance, and 5 is a problem. 5000 is where practical application end and horror movies begin. I doubt they would be funny as they slowly pull you down cutting and grinding.
The invetiables are cool, I will not deny that, but you have to give it up to the mechanics of the planes, especially see how they might be advancing as technology is.
The lowest level of modron is indeed a cube. But that hardly goes for the rest of them, and some of those are pretty impressive. As for not taking Modrons seriously, that maybe what they want you to think. After all, if you think something is an overgrown toaster, you are hardly going to pay attention to it recording events, travelling, or anything else it might need to do. Another distrubing thing is the shear number of them, as they are a dime a dozen it seems. After all, 1 bug (or droid) trying to eat (or disassemble) you is a nuissance, and 5 is a problem. 5000 is where practical application end and horror movies begin. I doubt they would be funny as they slowly pull you down cutting and grinding.
The invetiables are cool, I will not deny that, but you have to give it up to the mechanics of the planes, especially see how they might be advancing as technology is.
Alzrius
The EN World kitten
Shemeska said:I don't think they killed off the modrons from anything that was said. Is it clear that we're not likely to get any more material on them with the current crop of designers? Probably yes. Is it clear that at least one person there simply doesn't like them? That's clear from the chat I think.
Suffice to say, I don't buy the reasons, nor the anecdotes, given for the lack of Modrons in 3e. Far as I'm concerned they're still in Mechanus squashing twisted refugee ants from Arcadia that are inexplicably expansionist. And they're still marching every hundred cycles just to be a thorn in PCs side when his players ignore them.
Testify! I've been pretty unhappy with how some of the planar "examplar" races have been treated, but the almost-total exclusion of the Modrons is the worst, which makes me all the more grateful for at least that web enhancement (which, ironically, may reach a larger audience, since its self-contained and free).
Though, in hindsight, adding rules for playing rogue modron PCs and stats for Primus himself would have been nice too.
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Pants
First Post
Part of Arcadia merged with Mechanus due to the Harmonium. It's only logical that some of the Formians would get moved along with it. Unfortunately, the MotP acts as if Formians have always been on Mechanus and that they're the major force, which (unfortunately) they are not, at least in original PlaneScape canon.Toras said:
But then again, canon should be mutable, especially since D&D canon has never been very 'consistent' to begin with. Slaad have never been the epitomy of chaos that they were supposed to be and for some strange reason, lots of people seem to think that pure CN = 'stopping in midfight to eat a sandwhich and play with a hula-hoop just because it's chaotic neutral,' which is also a sore spot for me.
Well, that's the glory of an opinion now isn't it?
Actually, I referred to them as geometrical jokes.
Incenjucar
Legend
This log shows two bad things:
1) There's a designer or designers who would rather we played THEIR game than the one we've been playing for years; they're trying to discard modrons entirely rather than merely downplay them.
2) They're playing the old "Buy the manure or we'll never sell you diamonds" thing. While it's a common thing for any company selling any product, it's a -really- obnoxious habit that can lose customers.
If 4e is brought out with the trumpeting of modrons and faerie dragons with apple tarts in their claws, I'll be buying it the moment I see it. But I'm going to be much less enthusiastic about buying 3e products henceforth. I don't -need- the game books. If they stop producing what I -like-, then I can't really give them my money.
As for modrons being goofy -- you can make anything seem like anything. The art for modrons was usually with a light heart, but so was much of the PS art. It helped to cut the edge of a cold multiverse. I seriously doubt anyone being struck by a quadrone's arrows or being trampled to death by a horde of monodrones ever giggled about it, however.
May as well say that cartoons can't be serious after watching The Wolf Brigade and similar anime.
1) There's a designer or designers who would rather we played THEIR game than the one we've been playing for years; they're trying to discard modrons entirely rather than merely downplay them.
2) They're playing the old "Buy the manure or we'll never sell you diamonds" thing. While it's a common thing for any company selling any product, it's a -really- obnoxious habit that can lose customers.
If 4e is brought out with the trumpeting of modrons and faerie dragons with apple tarts in their claws, I'll be buying it the moment I see it. But I'm going to be much less enthusiastic about buying 3e products henceforth. I don't -need- the game books. If they stop producing what I -like-, then I can't really give them my money.
As for modrons being goofy -- you can make anything seem like anything. The art for modrons was usually with a light heart, but so was much of the PS art. It helped to cut the edge of a cold multiverse. I seriously doubt anyone being struck by a quadrone's arrows or being trampled to death by a horde of monodrones ever giggled about it, however.
May as well say that cartoons can't be serious after watching The Wolf Brigade and similar anime.
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