Planescape and Spelljammer

[AbdulAlhazred]

I don't think anything is impossible. WotC seems to be in a bit of a quandary about what their next move is. They could easily decide to go ahead and write up some support for a couple of older 2e settings like these. They are still popular with fans judging by the amount of times people have posted about them.

Frankly though I would email WotC about it. Quickest and most certain way to insure that they're aware of your desires.

 

[VGmaster9]

Well, I'm sure that all the 2e settings are still canon to the current D&D universe, right? There may be a chance we'll see some of them again, I dunno. The D&D universe is certainly massive and is full of detail, I'm just hoping that certain things aren't out of existence.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Well, I'm sure that all the 2e settings are still canon to the current D&D universe, right? There may be a chance we'll see some of them again, I dunno. The D&D universe is certainly massive and is full of detail, I'm just hoping that certain things aren't out of existence.

Well... The whole Great Wheel cosmology is not part of 4e canon. The World Axis cosmology of 4e COULD contain anything, including most all of what was canon in 2e, except where they've contradicted things. With Planescape they've contradicted a LOT of that setting, so it would have to be considerably revised and I'm not sure some of its central concepts fit all that well with 4e concepts, though I'm sure they could be adapted. Spelljammer is less sensitive to the differences in cosmology, though many details here and there might need to change a bit.

As for OTHER settings? Only PoLand, FR, Eberron, and Dark Sun have canonical 4e versions. IIRC Kara-Tur in theory now exists in FR somewhere, but it exists only as basically a note that that's what is where Mazteca was. Parts of the Domains of Dread are mapped out in the Shadowfell, which would be the replacement for the demiplane they existed in before. Bits of other stuff have been referenced in a few books, but there's no indication that other classic 2e settings will be rehashed, so you'd have to adapt them to 4e yourself.

 

[Shemeska]

Well, I'm sure that all the 2e settings are still canon to the current D&D universe, right? There may be a chance we'll see some of them again, I dunno. The D&D universe is certainly massive and is full of detail, I'm just hoping that certain things aren't out of existence.

Not really. 4e dumped the 1e/2e/3e cosmology and many of its core assumptions for that shared multiverse. It cherry picked some of that content but it really tried to wipe the slate clean. There's no assumed continuity between pre-4e and 4e in terms of that lore.

Individual settings like FR are another headache entirely, since their 4e revision largely forced them to adopt those same 4e PoL tropes, yet it didn't really address in most cases what that meant to their own internal continuity. FR already had some issues with its cosmology shift in 3e, but that was largely semantics compared to what 4e imposed upon it.

 

[VGmaster9]

Wow, no wonder so many people hate 4e.

 

[Incenjucar]

Perhaps, though fluff that can be ignored with no effort is one of the silliest possible reasons to hate a game.

Really the biggest problem in switching back to the Great Wheel is that you'd have to convert a lot of monsters that have been left out, like guardinals and whatnot. If you let the cosmology change become a barrier between you and running a Planescape game you've kind of missed the point of RPGs.

 

[VGmaster9]

Well I know you can make anything happen in RPGs, but I'm just stating it from a general point of view. If I could make my own version of D&D, it would combine elements from OD&D ver. 5, AD&D 2nd, 3.5, and 4e, making it like how the D&D universe is meant to be. With that, you wouldn't have to go through the hassle of making conversions. I would pretty much call it "Perfect Dungeons and Dragons".

 

[Incenjucar]

The mechanics are relatively separate from the fluff. Planescape fluff already exists, so the only actual need to reproduce it is because it's hard to get old 2E books. Mind you, I know that it's very hard for many people to act on something without it being right there, so I'm not tossing aside the value of having the fluff in the current books, but it's pretty much just a psychological thing. Not being subject to that particular quirk of psychology, I could run a 4E Planescape game this very moment with no effort outside of maybe getting an energy drink because it's late. All you have to do is explain "This is the Multiverse. According to most sages, the Multiverse is composed of many parts. These include the Inner Planes, the Prime Material Planes, and the Outer Planes. The Inner Planes are connected to the Prime Material through the Ethereal Plane, while the Outer Planes connect to the Prime through the Astral Plane." and so on and so forth.

 

[VGmaster9]

That's true, but it would just feel more comfortable to me if that was official. As for races, while the Eladrin would remain as the super powerful race like in 3.5 and not sun/moon elves with a different name, the Dragonborns would be a major race like in 4e, but would be distinct from Draconians of Krynn.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Well I know you can make anything happen in RPGs, but I'm just stating it from a general point of view. If I could make my own version of D&D, it would combine elements from OD&D ver. 5, AD&D 2nd, 3.5, and 4e, making it like how the D&D universe is meant to be. With that, you wouldn't have to go through the hassle of making conversions. I would pretty much call it "Perfect Dungeons and Dragons".

Meant to be??? lol. You understand that the 'Great Wheel' cosmology of pre-4e D&D was simply a random hodgepodge of ideas that were grafted together to suite the immediate needs of different authors and DMs over a period of decades. There was no 'meant' about it, it wasn't designed at all. EGG created a first sort of early prototype of it in The Dragon somewhere back a bit before AD&D 1e PHB was released (so maybe 1977). It was simply a sketch that went along with the new 'good/evil' alignment axis that also showed up in 1e (though again it had some precedent in magazine articles IIRC). There was no deep concept behind it.

In fact the Great Wheel suffers from a whole slew of serious problems. First of all it doesn't even faintly resemble any sort of cosmology from myth or religion. This makes it pretty awkward to integrate real world mythology into the game. Secondly it is a huge kitchen sink. Thirdly it lacks many interesting features, for instance where is the land of fairy? The land of the dead? What is the purpose of a division into inner and outer planes and why do their need to be 2 redundant 'glue' planes (ethereal and astral)?

Much of the pre-4e canon makes no real sense either. For instance if all the elementals have their own elemental plane then why would the fire and water elementals fight eachother? Do water elementals really want to live on the plane of fire??? The whole idea of what is going on in the inner planes just makes no sense at all.

The 4e cosmology OTOH makes tons of sense. There's a land of faerie, a land of the dead, no arbitrary divisions of planes or limits on how many outer planes can exist (now they are just domains, you can create whatever you want and they can be located wherever the story needs them). The elemental chaos makes more sense than the old inner planes and fits much more closely with traditional ideas of cosmogony. Honestly, you can tell any story you could tell using the Great Wheel and tell it using the World Axis and make it more sensible and easier to work out. The new cosmology is just outright better.

So, no I disagree that people hate 4e because somehow canon isn't 'what it is supposed to be'. 4e canon was created from the ground up to foster a good solid and easy to use cosmology that works well with almost any campaign and can do ALL of what the old one could, but better. What I would hate? Lack of progress.