Planescape fans, help me explain how to use a Mimir!

[Oryan77]

So I just gave the group a Mimir in our last game. I've used them a couple of times in past groups, and I think players seem to have a hard time understanding what you can do with it. I'm not sure if they really don't understand, or if they are just trying to exploit the intent of the item. Other players seem to understand and even try to help me explain it to the confused players. But every single time the confused players try to use it, they always try to do the exact same thing with it.

For example, the item is meant to just be used to give information about a particular location, organization, or maybe even about the traits of the plane. I base this fact on the contents provided in the Player's Primer to the Outlands CD. I like to play those tracks when players ask the Mimir questions. Those tracks are based on very specific topics.

The problem is, players try to use it to gain information related to some obscure detail that is more related to helping them gain an advantage in their adventuring rather than just simply learning knowledge to help inform them about the campaign world (the Outlands) and where they might be heading. So this last session, I was getting things like, "Tell me of the nearest portal to Bytopia." Or, tell me of all of the portals out of the Outlands." Or, tell me about the Temptress of Man's Desire." Or, "Tell me about the item known as the Black Heart."

Then, every single time I explain that it doesn't hold information in that way unless that info is just mentioned in passing when the recording is talking about a specific location, commonly known objects & people, or organizations. For example, I explain that you must ask it a question about a topic that might be listed in a table of contents, "Tell me about the Realm of the Norns.....I ended up in the Outlands when I stumbled out of a portal from Bytopia and it dropped me in the middle of an area called the Realm of the Norns. That's where I encountered a frightened man that claimed to have escaped the clutches of a woman he called the Temptress of Man's Desire. He told me that she carries a gem known as the Black Heart, yet he was unable to retrieve it and prove this story. yadda yadda yadda."

If that topic happens to mention something that they wanted to know, great. But the table of contents isn't going to have "Black Heart" listed as a topic.

So what happens after that? Well, the first thing the player will do is try to make his own recording about the Black Heart as if trying to exploit the system. Then I have to tell him that the recording will fail. This happens every time, and usually multiple times from the same players.

I know I could make it work like that if I wanted. But I don't want it to. I don't want to make it an unlimited source of free information. I just want it to be a fun little tool to learn about the Outlands in a way that is more entertaining than just reading the books. I don't mind if they make their own recordings, but I want the topics to be similar to what is on the CD or in the book.

I just want to explain how to use it so that they find some kind of use out of it. If I have to keep telling them, "There is no information on that subject", then they will quickly think it is useless and forget about it. Even if they go to a gate town, they won't even think to use the Mimir first to get familiar with the town, since it is "useless" to them.

So how would you describe how this item is to be used? Or do you think my players know, but they are just being stubborn and trying to continuously exploit it?

 

[Stormonu]

Most likely, they're trying to exploit it - not that it's a bad thing, we all want to get the most benefit out of what we own.

You should, perhaps use a modern explantion - the Mimir is a recording device but has some of the fantasy equivalent of Siri. However, it only knows what it has seen or heard already. Though I don't see why it couldn't have an entry about things like the Black Heart - there's an entry on Baba Yaga's hut in the soundtracks for example (an artifact).

Which could be interesting - conceivably, it could play back the characters own experiences if they ask a question, perhaps allowing them to pick up on something they may have missed the first time around.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

Strangely enough, this is the first description of a mimir I've gotten, despite being a PS fan. In addition to Stormonu's suggestion, you could try outright saying "The mimir is basically a magical tourist-guide, without a searchable database."

(If that is in fact an accurate description.)

 

[Desdichado]

If I remember correctly, Mimir's aren't very helpful if you don't also give them an Odin first.

 

[Quickleaf]

How did they come into possession of the mimir? When I've used mimirs (twice now), I gave the players some idea of who the previous owner or creator was, and maybe a bit of history on where the mimir has been. That helps sets up likely areas of knowledge for the mimir.

It's not just a mimir. It's (for example) a hammered copper mimir stained with verdigris and etched with symbols of the Wind Dukes of Aaqa, stolen from the halls of an efreet amir by the PCs. It's areas of sage knowledge include Plane of Air, Plane of Fire, City of Brass, Inner Planes pathways & portals, Wind Dukes, Efreeti, the Queen of Chaos, Miska the Wolf Spider, and the Rod of Seven Parts.

The problem is, players try to use it to gain information related to some obscure detail that is more related to helping them gain an advantage in their adventuring rather than just simply learning knowledge to help inform them about the campaign world (the Outlands) and where they might be heading. So this last session, I was getting things like, "Tell me of the nearest portal to Bytopia." Or, tell me of all of the portals out of the Outlands." Or, tell me about the Temptress of Man's Desire." Or, "Tell me about the item known as the Black Heart."

If they have a mimir about which they know very little those are entirely reasonable questions. The players are interested in getting from point A to point B quickly, so why NOT ask the mimir?

After all, who's to say the mimir DOESN'T have information on a portal? I mean, clearly you haven't defined to a T what knowledge the mimir possesses. The best thing about the mimir is that it's answers can be terribly literal and precise, or it can hold so much information that greater precision in questioning it is required, or the recording can be so old that conditions have since changed, and so on. For example...

Tell me of the nearest portal to Bytopia...
*Accessing recording with nearest portal to Bytopia* "Damnit Hanz, we'll never get out of Oinos with this much treasure and all these freed slaves. Where was that gate to Bytopia that mezzoloth told us about again?" "Over there, under the arch of the those two weeping red willows. And we're taking all the freed slaves with us." "Well, you see Franz, my warp sense spell determined that the gate key is a sacrificed slave, so it won't be all of them..." "Damn it mage! Is there no other way?" "None I'm afraid." "Alright fine, we need to get out of here before those yugoloths catch up and kill all of us. How about that old Tiefling who tried to warn his former captors about us? He looks like he's not long for this world and I don't trust him..."

Potential bits of misinformation could be strewn about this recording...

• The PCs are on a different layer or a different plane altogether.
• The mage lied and just wanted to corrupt his companion, having the true gate key secreted on his person.
• The weeping willows were destroyed in a Blood War skirmish.
• The mage and Franz had wrong information about the gate - it actually leads to the Abyss.

 

[Starfox]

The Mimir appears to be a plot device the GM cvan use to dump information on the players. But players generally resent info dumps and want more specifically useful information, just the reaction you're getting. They may or may not see through the infodump device. My tip is to mix in the infodump in their question. Say they're asking for a specific portal. The information could be in the Mimir, but it comes baked with an infodump about the location the portal is in, or about where it leads to, or the faction/gang that controls it (or used to control it when the information was recorded). In other words, you bake the information they want with a lot of information you want them to have. About 1/3 what they want, 2/3 what you want. But they get SOME of what they want, so you can hopefully hold their attention. This also allows you to get out of the GM role but keep some of the godmode - namely knowledge you can freely distribute.

This requires some improvisation, and the result might be less a recorded lecture and more a mass of stream-of-consciousness trivia. This is ok, think of it as a blog post recorded in the mimir.

If you resist too much when the players want specific information from the mimir, they will just sell it, ruining your chances of random information distribution.

 

[Samloyal23]

Definitely give the players a clue about what the mimir knows. Have it say outright what it knows about in general. "Arr, I know much of the Plain of Air, of what is rare there, and who is most fair..." Ask THIS mimir about anyone famous and powerful in the city of the Djinn, ask some other mimir about the 347 layer of the Abyss.