Planescape/Spelljammer knowledge needed ...

[Ambrus]

Heh, this goes quite a ways back but IIRC I once read a discussion on the subject of flying a spelljammer from the surface of the Outlands (Concordant Opposition) up the spire to reach sigil. I believe it was part of a question sent in to Sage Advice back in the day. I also seem to recall the question included the alternate idea of climbing the spire to reach Sigil King-Kong style. I think the answer amounted to "if you could get a spelljammer to the Outlands somehow, then yes it could fly around but as it neared the Spire the helm would fail because of the ever-increasing anti-magical properties of the Spire itself. Even if one could somehow keep flying or climbing up the Spire, one could never actually reach Sigil on top because the Spire is truly infinite in height and so is not a traversable distance by any means."

Now, for a contrasting point of vue: I once read a Planecape novel in which this army from the Abyss attacked Sigil by hollowing out these indestructible VW bug sized seed pods that grew in Arcadia, but which had the natural ability to plane-shift to other planes once they fell from their vines. Once inside the seeds the pilots, focused their thoughts on the city and caused their pods to plane-shift to Sigil where they began a series of destructive kamikaze attacks on the city itself (because apparently they could also fly the seed pods around with their thoughts). The indestructable pods slammed into the city streets and actually pierced the outside of the Torus (the giant ring that contains Sigil) and continued buzzing around the top of the Spire before ramming the Torus again and again turning the city into swiss cheese. All in all it was a rather odd story with some hard to accept plot developments.

All that being said, I think you should do what you think will be the most fun for your group.

 

[Shemeska]

Now, for a contrasting point of vue: I once read a Planecape novel in which this army from the Abyss attacked Sigil by hollowing out these indestructible VW bug sized seed pods that grew in Arcadia, but which had the natural ability to plane-shift to other planes once they fell from their vines. Once inside the seeds the pilots, focused their thoughts on the city and caused their pods to plane-shift to Sigil where they began a series of destructive kamikaze attacks on the city itself (because apparently they could also fly the seed pods around with their thoughts). The indestructable pods slammed into the city streets and actually pierced the outside of the Torus (the giant ring that contains Sigil) and continued buzzing around the top of the Spire before ramming the Torus again and again turning the city into swiss cheese. All in all it was a rather odd story with some hard to accept plot developments.

None of those planescape novels are considered canon for the setting. 'Pages of Pain' was a decently written novel but only if you don't consider it canon, which it isn't. The Blood War trilogy ... bad... truly bad. Breaks the setting precepts in half, lights them on fire and pisses on them.

There's my ever so kind opinion on the matter

But, being your own game feel free to change as you like. But by the books, so to speak, the only way to get into Sigil itself is via the portals. And spelljammers that can planeshift are indeed a nifty idea, though the spelljamming stuff won't work except on the prime itself IIRC.

 

[Alzrius]

Heh, this goes quite a ways back but IIRC I once read a discussion on the subject of flying a spelljammer from the surface of the Outlands (Concordant Opposition) up the spire to reach sigil. I believe it was part of a question sent in to Sage Advice back in the day. I also seem to recall the question included the alternate idea of climbing the spire to reach Sigil King-Kong style. I think the answer amounted to "if you could get a spelljammer to the Outlands somehow, then yes it could fly around but as it neared the Spire the helm would fail because of the ever-increasing anti-magical properties of the Spire itself. Even if one could somehow keep flying or climbing up the Spire, one could never actually reach Sigil on top because the Spire is truly infinite in height and so is not a traversable distance by any means."

This seems almost directly from the novel Tymora's Luck. A banelich takes a nautiloid to the Outlands and says they'll fly to Sigil and lay siege to the city. Finder Wyvernspur is there and laughingly says that not only can they never reach that height, but the antimagic properties of the spire would send the ship crashing to the ground. He also mentions that the city has a population large enough to fend off any siege. (He also said the antimagic properties of the spire would de-anmate the banelich, which isn't true, but I like to think he was just psyching him out.)

 

[Ambrus]

Yup, that must be from where I remember it, my mistake. Still, Finder's explanation does generally agree with the game description of the Spire as being infinitely high and therefore unatainable.

I also agree with Shemeska's opinion about the game accuracy of the Planescape novels. I didn't say they were good or valid; just some author's contrasting point of view. Food for thought at best.

 

[Rystil Arden]

And spelljammers that can planeshift are indeed a nifty idea, though the spelljamming stuff won't work except on the prime itself IIRC.

Well there's no wildspace through which to soar extremely quickly, but you can still fly a Planejammer around like a "normal" flying ship.

 

[Arnwyn]

(Though, as I pointed out elsewhere, one of the things that I really dug about LoM is that is sort of kicks Spelljammer take on cosmology to the curb, so that may be something to work around.)

You keep saying this - could you elaborate?

As far as I saw, it follows SJ's (and PS's) cosmology well enough (Spelljammer noted, and Planescape elaborated, that a bunch of crystal spheres and the phlogiston between them was on one Prime Material Plane - and that there are other planes, material and otherwise, that are entirely different).

Seems like that is followed through with LoM...

 

[Henry]

....caused their pods to plane-shift to Sigil where they began a series of destructive kamikaze attacks on the city itself (because apparently they could also fly the seed pods around with their thoughts). The indestructable pods slammed into the city streets and actually pierced the outside of the Torus (the giant ring that contains Sigil) and continued buzzing around the top of the Spire before ramming the Torus again and again turning the city into swiss cheese.

I think the name for the story was:

Sigil Harbor,

OR

Torus! Torus! Torus!


but I'm not sure which.

 

[Ashy]

Technically no, but you're the DM - you define the rules, blood!

 

[Shemeska]

You keep saying this - could you elaborate?

As far as I saw, it follows SJ's (and PS's) cosmology well enough (Spelljammer noted, and Planescape elaborated, that a bunch of crystal spheres and the phlogiston between them was on one Prime Material Plane - and that there are other planes, material and otherwise, that are entirely different).

Seems like that is followed through with LoM...

All of those spheres were all contained within the Prime Material Plane, there was only one of them that contained the various worlds/settings. 3e's design philosophy has tried to split off all the settings, FR being the prime example, retroactively into their own specific prime material planes without any connection between them now or ever, and glossing over the continuity issues in the process, or just ignoring them for better or for worse.

The new take on it all hasn't really touched on the spheres or why FR, Greyhawk, etc warrent being in wholly different and seperate prime material planes while each of those still have an infinite number of other worlds out there spinning in the darkness either as realworld style galaxies or Spelljammer'esque Crystal Spheres.

Again, I don't use the Spelljammer crystal spheres and phlogiston, just making it all like normal space in a common prime material. But that's just me, some people liked Spelljammer's specific details and others *cough*Psion*cough* really don't. I'm largely ambivalent on them, but I prefer a common prime material for all the worlds that were originally set within in, Ebberon being the big exception since it was never intended to be in a single common prime, and it's cosmology is radically different right from the start. And I'm cool with that since it was the intent from the start.

 

[Sammael]

Eberron works with the Great Wheel as well, really. All that needs to be changed is the concept that planes move away or toward the planet. Nay, it is Eberron that moves through the Astral itself, moving away from some outer planes and coming so close to others that reality begins to seep between the worlds.