Playable Vampire: From Level 0 Up.

[Sylrae]

I considered something like that. More along the lines of the Rogue Abilities though, where they aren't exactly feats.

The only Issue I'm seeing is that there is a varying power level between different vampire powers.

the Mist form is worth LA+1, for example. Dominate is worth LA+0.5, and Children of the Night and Spiderwalk are equivalent to feats (LA+0.2).

That's why I was thinking that it could be a better Idea to have the different class levels you can take. After pricing out the different abilities, a feat-like system might work though.

 

[Sylrae]

Alright:

The Vampire has been updated.

I paid attention to your suggestion Hrothgar.

Vampire powers are now sorted into greater and lesser powers. The lesser powers can be taken as feats.

I figured out that Gaseous Form isnt as powerful as it is for the MM Vampire, as this vampire doesnt assume Gaseous Form at 0hp so it's not an uber way to cheat death.

Let me know what you think of the abilities and their power levels.

I'll put the spreadsheet up later when I have a chance if people want to see it.

 

[Sylrae]

Bump

I haven't gotten any feedback since I made the major revision.

Anyone have suggestions?

Anyone gotten a chance to look at it?

Thanks ValhallaGH. Sounds great.

Eagerly awaiting response, from any/all of you.

 

[ValhallaGH]

Need to read through it, not skim it. Will analyze and reply when I can.

 

[ValhallaGH]

The Vampire has been updated.

Okay, here are my impressions and thoughts:

1) Feeding: is too good. For the price of a grapple (dealing 1d4 constitution damage to the victim) I get to regain 7 hp per round until the victim dies or until I max out. At which point I can get another 5 to 30 temporary hp by dealing another 1d4 constitution damage per 5 temp hp.
Oh, and I keep my Blood Hunger at bay for another day.
Yes Please.

2) Holy Symbols: I like the idea, but many of the holy symbols are basic structures (crosses, spoked wheels, etc.) that are encountered constantly. Simply requiring the symbol to be presented (much like the old opposed CHA check) would be a huge improvement, and in line with the "owner lets them close" idea.

3) Create Spawn: Who's ECL? Presumably the creator's, but maybe the spawn's.
Also, why ECL and not HD or Level or CR, or the more traditional X + 1/2 HD + Ability?

4) Save DCs: for the various effects, save DC is based upon what? Do they add any key ability to their save DCs?
This is the sort of note you can put under the Power, Lesser and Power, Greater headers.

5) Charm: The animals note would be clearer if written as follows:
If the Vampire has Children of the Night then Charm can also affect animals as the Charm Animal spell.

6) Fear Aura: Still has the Lich in the text. Also, the last sentence needs proper capitalization.


Overall, not bad. I could definitely see this being a lot of fun for a group to deal with; it makes a Vampire PC almost playable (silly diurnal setting getting the PC set on fire).
Good luck.

 

[Sylrae]

Okay, here are my impressions and thoughts:

Much Appreciated.

Alot of these seem to be an issues of "rules as intended, vs. rules as written." I'm going to update the pdf to say things the way I meant for them to function(when I get home), and list how I meant for these things to work, which you seem to have interpreted differently(now), and see if that makes any difference.

I removed the issue numbers in your quotes to make it less confusing since I numbered my points / solutions.

Feeding: is too good. For the price of a grapple (dealing 1d4 constitution damage to the victim) I get to regain 7 hp per round until the victim dies or until I max out. At which point I can get another 5 to 30 temporary hp by dealing another 1d4 constitution damage per 5 temp hp.
Oh, and I keep my Blood Hunger at bay for another day.
Yes Please.

Okay. Here I'm seeing issues of "Oh I was totally thinking of something else, and didn't write it that way."
These 'nerfs' may make feeding be more reasonable, and are in fact the way I meant to run it, and I had not realized that I didn't write ti that way until you pointed it out.
1. The grapple, needs to be followed by a bite, to do the Con damage. The bite is at your full BAB, but only if theyre grappled. You don't get bite as a natural attack all the time, only when grappling. The bite should probably do the standard 1d4. I'll have to add that in to the damage table for slam/claws.
2. Next round, the victim gets his opposed grapple as usual.
-If he wins the grapple, he gets his attack as usual. If he escapes the grapple, the feeding ends.
--If he does damage instead of escaping, you need to do a concentration check (or however it's handled in pathfinder for other melee things requiring a concentration check since concentration is in spellcraft) to maintain the bite/feeding.
--If he does not choose escape, and misses, or the damage dealt doesn't make you fail your check, you can then do the Con damage and feed the next round.
-If he fails the grapple check, you can feed. You don't do more HP damage from biting, as you already bit, but you do the Con Damage.
3. The 7 is including fast healing? Hmm. yeah. Feeding shouldn't be that easy though, as I outlined above but didn't write up properly.
Maybe Feeding shouldn't heal HP. Maybe just stave off the hunger, unless the hunger is abated, at which point you get your bonus HP.
For the Hunger to be abated, you have to have already drained 4 CON that day from someone. If you drain 1 CON one round, no Bonus HP, and the Hunger is not abated that day yet. if you drain 4 CON the next round, for a total of 5, you have now abated the hunger, but have not drained CON while abated yet, so you still don't get the bonus HP. If you do it again AFTER this, then you get the bonus HP (which may only fill the bonus HP, leaving standard hp alone, depending on balance issues. get back to me if you can).
4. The Feed ability only works on living creatures with blood.
*Possible Nerf* If it's a different kind than the vampire's base-creature's type had (Warm blooded vs. Cold Blooded, then its utility in all senses is cut in half, with no minimum.)

5. *Note > Blood Hunger: The Blood Hunger can be sated by a corpse if it's freshly killed, and the corpse can be fed upon like a living one. The blood must either be preserved, or less than a day old, to be usable. *should gentle repose expire faster for this effect?*

Holy Symbols: I like the idea, but many of the holy symbols are basic structures (crosses, spoked wheels, etc.) that are encountered constantly. Simply requiring the symbol to be presented (much like the old opposed CHA check) would be a huge improvement, and in line with the "owner lets them close" idea.

Oh. I've always been under the impression that holy symbols had to be blessed to be considered holy. Using a christian analogy for how I meant for them to work:
1. Peasant presents a makeshift cross. Unless he is a holy-man, or a priest/cleric, it's just two sticks. Not a holy symbol.
2. Cleric/Priest presents a holy symbol of their god, or one which was blessed by a priest of the god whom the symbol belongs to. Works as directed.
3. Peasant Presents a holy symbol blessed by a Priest/Cleric/Holy-Man. works as Intended.
4. Holy symbol is 7ft tall, and in a church. You can assume it's been blessed. Works as intended.
*Note. Blessing said holy symbol should not require a special ability, just has been treated as a holy symbol by a Priest/Cleric. Alternatively, you could have it require use of the bless spell, but on holy symbols, as they are not weapons, the effect is permanent.

Unblessed Basic Structures have no effect.

Create Spawn: Who's ECL? Presumably the creator's, but maybe the spawn's.
Also, why ECL and not HD or Level or CR, or the more traditional X + 1/2 HD + Ability?

Sorry, yes that would be the creator's ECL, and the "Why ECL" is a holdover from when I wrote that ability up for an old template. Where I'm working under the assumption that Level Adjustments no longer exist, and abilities are Tied to Hit Dice, Level or HD is what should be there instead of ECL. It was written with LA and HD a while back, and I never liked having DCs be tied to HD, when you had an LA you had to pay for as well. Have I mentioned I don't think the LA system was well designed?(kidding, I know I have).

Save DCs: for the various effects, save DC is based upon what? Do they add any key ability to their save DCs?
This is the sort of note you can put under the Power, Lesser and Power, Greater headers.

I thought all these were covered by saying 'as a x level wizard', but I could always standardize them for DCs, using standardized values for them. I'll look at this when I get home too.

Charm: The animals note would be clearer if written as follows:
If the Vampire has Children of the Night then Charm can also affect animals as the Charm Animal spell.

I'll rephrase the animals notes to be more clear.

Fear Aura: Still has the Lich in the text. Also, the last sentence needs proper capitalization.

Editing Error. thanks, I'll be sure to fix this as soon as I get home.

Overall, not bad. I could definitely see this being a lot of fun for a group to deal with; it makes a Vampire PC almost playable (silly diurnal setting getting the PC set on fire).
Good luck.

Thanks dude!

Thoughts on these corrections? Do you think they'd all work?

 

[ValhallaGH]

You're welcome.

Feeding: Yes, I was including the fast healing hp. And if you allowed multiple grapples per round (ala 3.5) then it would end up being something like 22 hp per round.
If it is that freaking hard to feed then I can see it working out just fine. That said, throwing in the appropriate references to the grapple rules couldn't hurt the clarity; nor could a quick example to solidify the ideas for the reader.

Holy Symbols: The lack of proper definition was the main issue there. You should stick in the definition.
The other issue was that I vastly prefer the faith behind the symbol presentation stopping the vampire, not the symbol itself. The idea that even against such incredibly powerful evil, the strength of true faith can keep it at bay. Which is an idea that can be carried over to your model with some changes of flavor text.

Save DCs: I must have missed the "as a wizard" note. Making them INT based DCs. Duly noted.

Good luck.

 

[Sylrae]

Feeding: Yes, I was including the fast healing hp. And if you allowed multiple grapples per round (ala 3.5) then it would end up being something like 22 hp per round.

You can do that in 3.5? I'll have to look that one up, obvioiusly it slipped by me.

If it is that freaking hard to feed then I can see it working out just fine. That said, throwing in the appropriate references to the grapple rules couldn't hurt the clarity; nor could a quick example to solidify the ideas for the reader.

True enough. I'm going to review the grapple rules. It's going to be based on standard grapple rules, as though using attacks, but only the initial attack is going to do hp damage.I'll update the formatting in the document and include references too. I may get it done by tomorrow sometime.

Holy Symbols: The lack of proper definition was the main issue there. You should stick in the definition.
The other issue was that I vastly prefer the faith behind the symbol presentation stopping the vampire, not the symbol itself. The idea that even against such incredibly powerful evil, the strength of true faith can keep it at bay. Which is an idea that can be carried over to your model with some changes of flavor text.

Your idea is cool too. I like the idea of true faith working, but im not sure how to define who has it. And not everyone will have it. even if they worship Lathander.

Save DCs: I must have missed the "as a wizard" note. Making them INT based DCs. Duly noted.

I believe so. But again, I may revise them, because caster levels vary by effect, for the other variables of the spell. Standardized DCs across the board might be a good Idea. I'll look into that.

Good luck.

Thanks Dude.

 

[Steinhauser]

Perusing this, a thought occurs. You mention getting less potent blood from cold-blooded sources. But untimately any mammal's blood is as good as a human's.

A goat costs 1 gp. A vampire with 5 gp to spare can buy 5 goats. Each day he drinks from the healthiest ones until sated; by going around to each one in turn, letting the others recover, he never has to worry about blood hunger again. He buys a couple more goats, and he gets 5 temporary HP every day.

 

[Sylrae]

Hmm. Yep. Or he goes to a butcher and buys blood. Claims it's for the cooking. So long as its fresh enough it works. But then he still needs to explain why he's buying so much blood, and most people dont like vampires.

And cold blooded vampires would find mammal blood less potent. I haven't updated the pdf. My laptop is broken at the moment, but I'll get around to updating this to reflect the changes I mentioned in theis thread asap.

But yes. Your assessment is correct. You could play a chupacabra-like vampire. Or eat cows. It still makes for awkward social situations. lol.

You could also collect blood from the horde of orcs you killed. They don't have to be alive when you take the blood, you can get it shortly after as well.

That is the way I intended it to work.