D&D 5E Player agency and Paladin oath.

[Li Shenron]

Just a note: many are saying that these problems are caused by alignment... they are not, they are caused simply by what the characters do. If there was no alignment system in this game, and the PCs had no "LG", "CG" or "CN" labels, it wouldn't make a difference, there would still be one character who doesn't want to promise mercy and then murder captives anyway, and others who choose to do it.

You are looking at a few actions, and yes ones that either are or lean evil. Their characters are more than that and they do plenty of good things too.

Meh. "I murder a person or two sometimes but I am not evil because I also do a lot of charity" doesn't work with me. There's a reason why theologies have the concept of "mortal sins" i.e. things which if you do them once and do not atone then you go to hell. Obviously D&D is not a game of theology, it doesn't have to get into significant discussions about morality, but still counting good and evil acts as if they were symmetric or can balance each other out doesn't make sense to me.

 

[jasper]

S......

I am really having trouble with this because I think in real life those characters would just part ways - the Paladin can't accept such behavior and the others can't stand the goody-goody Paladin. Of course in the real world parting ways means an end to our game. ......

Part ways. Drop the paladin pc since I know you not going to get the knucklehead PCS to change. Ask the player to bring a new pc the same level as the paladin. IF this is not workable then all the players are not a good fit for the game group and some may need a new group. As others mention this player conflict more than pc conflict.
Remember NO Gaming is BETTER than bad gaming.

 

[Horwath]

1st, make sure that there is no PvP action, unless madatory by overall story.

2. players should let other players play out their characters until those actions fall into PvP area.
If you have a thief in a party, you paladin should not go out of his way to make count of every second that the thief is out of sight.

ofc, thief should NOT steal from party ever. unless the story demands it without question.

3. unless given official outhority, PCs should not hold justice over other PCs, and as stated should turn a blind eye to some actions.
Handing out justice to thieves, murderers from PC ranks in up to DM via NPCs

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

For the record, The issue isn't because one character is a Paladin. Lots of people don't believe in killing prisoners and you don't have to be a Paladin to defend the rights of a prisoner's life. So you shouldn't be shifting the burden of the problem on the Paladin.

I could easily see a true-neutral or NG character not wanting to kill prisoners.

 

[ZeshinX]

Very little difference between this and "fight with enemies, kill them all, then interrogate via Speak With Dead". This is the party's mistake; they're trying to question live captives - even more a mistake in that a living being can lie where a dead one cannot.

As I said, to each their own interpretation.

 

[Umbran]

So to start with I don't like Paladin PCs.
...
As an aside I am not a fan of CN players either but that is another topic.

I think you'll find that your current problem and these two statements are really all the same topic.

 

[Iry]

I’m not sure where this idea that killing a prisoner is evil came from.

I think it's more the "promise to let them go if they cooperate, then betray them" that slides it into chaotic evil territory. Just killing them because the law says that's the punishment for their crime is mostly lawful.

But in this case, I'm not sure the CN characters even know the law on this issue.

 

[Oofta]

The tone of the OP is that "because they didn't kill the stone giant on sight, I punished them". That may not have been the intent, but it's certainly what it sounds like. What option did the PCs have other than killing the first random non-hostile stone giant they came across?

Ambushing the PCs instead of trying to find some other way of communicating seems out of character to me. For that matter, it sounds like only evil characters need apply for this campaign.

 

[billd91]

Its a passage in one of the Drizzt books when normally CG Cattie Brie suddenly advocates genocide against Goblins (bearing in mind her father was killed by one) and expresses a desire to murder Goblin children.

The other heroes (including Drizzt) plus Bruenor etc are horrified by this, and explain to her why that is wrong, that they've literally encountered and even adventured with Goodly Orcs and Goblins before, and are deeply disturbed by what she's saying.

It's then never spoken of again in the books.

She is also depicted being upset and disturbed when she has to kill a human 'because they're like her' but has no pity or remorse or empathy whatsoever for Goblins and Orcs (who she clearly dehumanises).

Its some really weird writing.

Honestly, it's not that weird - how many people in history have hated the ones who victimized them? She may compartmentalize, maybe even demonize, goblins and orcs (who aren't human so I'm not sure that dehumanizing really applies), but she has a bona fide traumatic history driving it. The question is - does she actually commit genocide against goblins including children? Talking about it, expressing it as a deeply rooted hatred, isn't the same as doing it. A lot of people will say one thing, only to find they can't actually do it when faced with the situation.

 

[Oofta]

Honestly, it's not that weird - how many people in history have hated the ones who victimized them? She may compartmentalize, maybe even demonize, goblins and orcs (who aren't human so I'm not sure that dehumanizing really applies), but she has a bona fide traumatic history driving it. The question is - does she actually commit genocide against goblins including children? Talking about it, expressing it as a deeply rooted hatred, isn't the same as doing it. A lot of people will say one thing, only to find they can't actually do it when faced with the situation.

I've read most of the older books and don't remember this. Then again it's been a long time.

Being "good" doesn't mean being perfect or having a perfect understanding of how the world works. Otherwise good people can have blind spots and prejudices. Cattie-Brie can't read the campaign documentation explaining how monstrous races are handled.

Sounds like she spoke in anger but never acted out on it. She's also probably suffering from some sort of PTSD.

Besides, we're talking Salvatore novels here, do you really expect in depth soul searching from her? The only one we really get that from is Drizzt. Then we get more. And yet more.