D&D 5E Player angry about enemies climbing rope with Rope Trick

Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Third, why is your goal to kill the PCs? Do you frame the character sheets of fallen PCs and hang them in your mom's basement like some sort of serial killer? Can you drink diet coke instead of the tears of your players? Isn't there something better you can try, like telling a story or spending a few hours in some mutual escapism?
Mod Note:

Your response in the rest of the post from which I’m currently quoting was pretty much OK.

This, however, is not. This makes it personal, and is no longer addressing the core issues being discussed. Don’t do that, please.
 

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Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
They dont need to know anything about the spell, all Krunk needs to know is that “my target has just climbed the rope thats dangling in the air front of me -Me see magic- Me can climb too!”
Yeah. It's not the climbing in part. It was the resting in it for the hour afterwards. They'd have had no idea how long it would remain or if it was safe to rest in.
 

Tonguez

A suffusion of yellow
Yeah. It's not the climbing in part. It was the resting in it for the hour afterwards. They'd have had no idea how long it would remain or if it was safe to rest in.
Yeah Id just assume they got lucky - they got bored of being there after 50 minutes and were prepared to defend it
 

Zubatcarteira

Now you're infected by the Musical Doodle
Well, technically, you need the whole hour for a short rest, and they'd spend some time climbing the rope and killing the Ranger, so it should end just a bit before the rest ends, they'd fall with no regained HP.

In any case, it's not unreasonable to know the spell, it could be a high magic world, they can have a wizard friend at home, maybe they learned about spells in school. Orcs don't need to be dumb anymore either, they can be as likely to know as a human, dwarf or elf.
 


None of the events seem particularly unreasonable, but the tone and and the attitude sound dysfunctional.

Also, Rope Trick and Leomund's Invincible Bunker are hella annoying spells that have a tendency to totally mess up the pacing, so I always just ban them. And I recommend anyone who has an issue with them rather do that, than punishing the players for using them.
 

Oofta

Legend
It could. I mean, a guy climbs up a rope and vanishes. To where? I could see one guy maybe having the guts (or just stubborness) to climb up the rope after the guy, but multiple people climbing a stairway to nowhere?

Again, Green Devil Face. Is it a safe place? Is it a place where the ranger has reinforcements? Is he about to meet with his Infernal Patron? Wouldn't it be better to finish off the other guys who aren't retreating?
It's combat. As a general rule combat is not safe.
And I just want to bring this up, I have a lot of people tell me that "well, if an encounter is going badly, just retreat!" I often point out that retreating really isn't possible a lot of times.

And hey, look here, we have a DM having monsters go out of their way to stop a player from retreating. : )

As far as retreating, if I think it's necessary I'll try to give the PCs an "out". A door they can slam shut on their way out, a portcullis they can drop or the old jump off a cliff into the river. But it has to be something better than climbing up to what is effectively a magic ledge while leaving a rope to climb after.
 

Yeah. It's not the climbing in part. It was the resting in it for the hour afterwards. They'd have had no idea how long it would remain or if it was safe to rest in.
Yeah. The only way I can imagine it is the orcs looking down and seeing their allies being butchered, panicking, and deciding to stay up there with no knowledge of how long they would be safe. Then being rudely dumped (prone) on the ground when the timer runs out.

But we have no idea if it went down like that.

Does make me imagine a morbid scene where they demand safe passage out or they will eat the body. :oops:
 

Nebulous

Legend
This is an interesting argument. I don't think there is anything mechanically wrong with the orcs climbing the rope. Not sure if they WOULD, and that comes back again to "do they know this is rope trick to an extradimensional pocket?" or is it just some wonky magic they've never seen. The odds of seeing rope trick cast are extremely unlikely. But I could see it going either way, and the DM made the call. Would they have heard of it? Eh. Maybe? It's entirely plausible. If you assume they don't know what the spell is and never heard of it, then seeing a guy climb a dangling rope into nothingness would be - in my game - something too weird to dare follow. Maybe one orc, but not five.
 

billd91

Hobbit on Quest (he/him)
Third, why is your goal to kill the PCs? Do you frame the character sheets of fallen PCs and hang them in your mom's basement like some sort of serial killer? Can you drink diet coke instead of the tears of your players? Isn't there something better you can try, like telling a story or spending a few hours in some mutual escapism?
I’d like to point out you don’t need to be a serial killer to post the sheets of dead characters on the wall. We have done this for a number of campaigns over the last 25 years and we’re perfectly well-adjusted.

And it’s not always about drinking the tears of your players (though they are delicious). Sometimes you need to get up in the table to dance the Jig of Victory. Context matters.
 

Bill Zebub

“It’s probably Matt Mercer’s fault.”
Another option for the player would be to laugh about it, and then start plotting...

Next time, make sure it's the full 60' rope length, wait at the top, and then Hold Action. When the orcs are 5' away, cut the rope.
 

Vaalingrade

Legend
None of the events seem particularly unreasonable, but the tone and and the attitude sound dysfunctional.

Also, Rope Trick and Leomund's Invincible Bunker are hella annoying spells that have a tendency to totally mess up the pacing, so I always just ban them. And I recommend anyone who has an issue with them rather do that, than punishing the players for using them.
They don't mess up the pacing so much as mess up the DM's chance to mess up the pacing with random encounters and sleepy-time ambushes.
 

They don't mess up the pacing so much as mess up the DM's chance to mess up the pacing with random encounters and sleepy-time ambushes.
Yes, that too. But like it or not (and I know you don't) the game is built with the assumption of certain number encounters between rests. So PCs being able to basically rest wherever they want, whenever they want seriously messes that up. Though personally I feel it also ruins tension and dramatic pacing related to that. Being able to just pause an intense situation to chill in a safe pocket dimension just is weird and not something I want to be happening. YMMV and all that.
 

Vaalingrade

Legend
So PCs being able to basically rest wherever they want, whenever they want seriously messes that up. Though personally I feel it also ruins tension and dramatic pacing related to that. Being able to just pause an intense situation to chill in a safe pocket dimension just is weird and not something I want to be happening. YMMV and all that.
Even if we go by this, they can't rest 'whenever they want' because the spells have a longer than a round casting time, meaning you can't actually do it in combat.

Which is another point everyone is missing here. The Ranger is apparently only able to do this using Spell Storing. Now, where did he get access to that I wonder?
 

I despise the way Tiny Hut is written. I had players using it as a temporary redoubt in battle, and sneer at me when I couldn't do anything about it. Then the one time I thought an encountered enemy could do something about it, they cried to the event organizer and came back to me with a Crawford tweet. I stopped running AL games after that.
How do you use a spell with a casting time of 1 whole minute (a.k.a. 10 rounds if combat) as a temporary redoubt in battle?
 

How do you use a spell with a casting time of 1 whole minute (a.k.a. 10 rounds if combat) as a temporary redoubt in battle?
Pre-cast it and pull monsters to it, like you're in an MMO dungeon. Or start casting and move into enemy territory the round you finish. Effectiveness varies on scouting, dungeon layout, and monster intelligence of course.

I've also seen players Divine Intervention and Wish for one in an emergency.
 


Even if we go by this, they can't rest 'whenever they want' because the spells have a longer than a round casting time, meaning you can't actually do it in combat.

Which is another point everyone is missing here. The Ranger is apparently only able to do this using Spell Storing. Now, where did he get access to that I wonder?
Rope Trick casting time is 1 action (no Spell Storing needed)
Tiny Hut casting time is 1 minute
 

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
Another option for the player would be to laugh about it, and then start plotting...

Next time, make sure it's the full 60' rope length, wait at the top, and then Hold Action. When the orcs are 5' away, cut the rope.
Make sure you have another rope handy, though, and something heavy to tie it to; or you're falling 60' when the spell ends or when you jump out...
 

James Gasik

Legend
Supporter
Yeah, so, the character didn't get the Ring under my watch, but they had it from some adventure or another (this being an AL game). At the time, I was told that since the spell was previously cast, then activating would require nothing more than a standard action. I was dubious about this, because the ring states you "cast" the spell. I had a thread about this on these forums (gobbled up apparently) for clarification. Since then, I have heard people say that the Ring does not change the casting time of the spell.

Not sure if this is the case or not, but it would be a good ruling with regards to Ritual spells.
 

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