Player-Designed PrC, Balanced?

[EOL]

A player in my campaign is proposing this as a prestige class for his Dwarven Fighter, what do you think is it balanced?

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Master of the Axe

A Master of the Axe picks up where the Dwarven Defenders leaves off. While the Defender takes a stand insuring that no foe shall pass. A Master of the Axe is more mobile. They are able to serve as rear guards, front line troops, skirmishers, and to seek out and punish their enemies away from the dwarven strongholds.

Hit Die: d10

Requirements:

Race: Dwarf
Base Attack Bonus: +7
Intimidate: 4 ranks
Proficiency: Battle Axe, Dwarven Waraxe, or Great Axe
Feats: Dodge, Mobility, Expertise, Power Attack, Spring Attack, Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Whirlwind Attack

Class Skills

The Master of the Axe’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Intimidate (Cha), Listen (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis)

Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier

Level Attack Fort Ref Will AC Special
1st | +1 | +2 | +0 | +2 | +1 | Courage, Fight On
2nd | +2 | +3 | +0 | +3 | +1 | Superior Weapon Focus
3rd | +3 | +3 | +1 | +3 | +1 | Defensive Strike
4th | +4 | +4 | +1 | +4 | +2 | Increased Multiplier 1 / day
5th | +5 | +4 | +1 | +4 | +2 | Damage Reduction (2/-)
6th | +6 | +5 | +2 | +5 | +2 | Defensive Strike +1
7th | +7 | +5 | +2 | +5 | +3 | Superior Critical
8th | +8 | +6 | +2 | +6 | +3 | Increased Multiplier 2 / day
9th | +9 | +6 | +3 | +6 | +3 | Defensive Strike +2
10th | +10 | +7 | +3 | +7 | +4 | Superior Whirlwind Attack

Class Features

All of the following are class features of the Master of the Axe prestige class.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Masters of the Axe are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, all types of armor, and shields.

AC Bonus (Ex): A cover bonus applied to your AC when using an axe.

Courage (Ex): Beginning at level 1, you are immune to fear (magical or otherwise).

Fight On (Ex): If your hit points pass below zero, you may continue to fight without being staggered if your level equals your current negative hit points. You must still make stabilization checks.

Defensive Strike (Ex): You can make an Attack of Opportunity against any adjacent opponent who attacks an ally in battle. You gain a +1 bonus to the attack at level 6, and +2 at level 9.

Superior Weapon Focus (Ex): Stacking with any existing Weapon Focus bonus, this ability grants you an additional +1 to attack rolls with one type of axe.

Increased Multiplier (Ex): Determine the standard critical multiplier for your axe of choice. With this ability you can increase that multiplier by +1. You must declare the use of this ability before you roll any damage dice.

Damage Reduction (Su): Subtract 2 from the damage you take, each time you are dealt damage.

Superior Critical (Ex): Gain the Improved Critical Feat for free. If you already possess this feat, add an additional +2 to your axe’s threat range for critical hits.

Superior Whirlwind Attack (Ex): You can make a Whirwind Attack as a standard action rather than a full round action. Only one whirlwind attack may be made per round.

 

[CRGreathouse]

Do you want my honest opinion? Kick the player, and tell them you'll kick them agai if they ever show you something this blatently overpiowered.

* Requirements: All useful feats. Compare to the dwarven defender.
* Saves: better than fighters (or dwarven defenders)
* Skills: better than the Dwarven Defender - and useful skills, too.
* Defensive Strike: Give them free attacks, then give them a bonus on said attacks. What?
* Superior Weapon Focus: a great ability, given out with a lot of other great abilities.
* AC bonus: better than a monk's, and matched only by the dwarven defender - a class that specializes on raising AC.

 

[Cloudgatherer]

I'm going to have to concur. It's quite overpowered. The saves are actually the same as the dwarven defeners (yep, they get good Will saves), but the abilities! This PrC has way to many great abilities stacked together.

The dwarven defender requires toughness, dodge, and endurance. +3 HP, +1 AC vs. 1 opponent, and +4 for physical checks over time (anyone ever use this?).

 

[CRGreathouse]

I apologize - they do have good Will saves.

I love the dwarven defender PrC. It makes good PCs, but even better villan henchmen...

 

[Tylias]

You might want to remind him that he left out Superior Weapon Specialization and Supreme Cleave

*roll eyes*

 

[EOL]

Okay here's where it gets complicated. I totally agree with your opinion that it's overpowered, but then there are a few questions:

1- What would balance it, I was thinking at the very least making "Will" a poor rather than a good save, or do I need to go farther?

2- He trades off DM'ing with me one week he plays the other week I play and so he's in charge of approving the prestige class for my character, so...if I gut his prestige class maybe he guts mine.

3- I'm not sure if my prestige class is balanced so it may be hypocritical to slash his (or he may have cleared mine as a quid pro quo exchange you clear mine and I'll clear yours)

I feel dirty all of the sudden...In any event my prestige class can be found here:

http://www.aruplab.com/~richeyrw/ShadowSoul.html

I may have to start a seperate thread, but tell me if you think it is balanced.

 

[Furn_Darkside]

2- He trades off DM'ing with me one week he plays the other week I play and so he's in charge of approving the prestige class for my character, so...if I gut his prestige class maybe he guts mine.

Salutations,

What do you care more about- your character or your campeign?

Another player in my group dm's occasionally, and I would rather preserve my campeign then capitulate to something not right- and not worry about how it might impact my character.

My suggestion is to just point him at the weapon master PrC in the sword and fist book.

FD

 

[EOL]

I fully intend to suggest some modifications, but I still don't want to be hypocritical, so it's important to know if the PrC I designed is balanced. Should I start a new thread for that question?

 

[CRGreathouse]

Your class is powerful, too, but losing a level or two of spellcasting (think T&B) would do the class a world of good.

I think the "Master of the Axe" PrC is much worse.

 

[Galfridus]

Okay here's where it gets complicated. I totally agree with your opinion that it's overpowered, but then there are a few questions:

1- What would balance it, I was thinking at the very least making "Will" a poor rather than a good save, or do I need to go farther?

I'm going to use Dwarven Defender as a basis for comparison. Here's what I would do:

1) Change Feat requirements to: Weapon Specialization (some axe), Whirlwind Attack, Run. Note that Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Expertise, and Weapon Focus are included by default.

Adding Run makes sense for a class that is supposed to be more mobile; you could replace it with Endurance if that makes more sense to you.

2) Change the AC bonus so that it only applies when the character executes a move action during the round (again, encouraging a more mobile approach). I would specifically say that if the character does a full-attack plus a move (say, if Hasted) that the AC bonus doesn't apply.

3) Defensive Strike must go. I would replace it the rogue Opportunist ability at 6th level, and add some Uncanny Dodge abilities at 3rd and 9th.

4) Superior Critical and Damage Reduction do not seem very relevant to this class. I would replace them with extra movement and something else (can't think of anything off hand).

5) I would remove Listen, Spot, and Sense Motive from the skill list. Why are these there? I would replace them with more appropriate skills.

2- He trades off DM'ing with me one week he plays the other week I play and so he's in charge of approving the prestige class for my character, so...if I gut his prestige class maybe he guts mine.

If this is the case, you have bigger problems to handle. If his PC loses a magic item, will he take revenge in his session? Yuck.

3- I'm not sure if my prestige class is balanced so it may be hypocritical to slash his (or he may have cleared mine as a quid pro quo exchange you clear mine and I'll clear yours)

If you really think this is the case, tell him that you would understand if he wants to reconsider your class. If he reconsiders just to be vengeful, see above.

Your class makes such radical changes that it's hard to judge. I would say that's better than this one, but still a little on the powerful side.