Player Dilemma

[Hypersmurf]

Well ok lets take that to its conclusion.
Does a Paladin "whack" a guy because he is in danger of becoming evil? A human? at birth? Who may make the wrong decision in sixteen years? Thats farsical and typical of an America Military philosophy of shoot it, it may move soon!

I've always liked the idea of a paladin in a culture that has a Ragnarokesque view of the end of the world - any evil creature who dies fights on the Army of Evil at the end of time, and any good creature who dies fights for the Army of Good.

A paladin's job is to seek out evil creatures, redeem them so they become good, and then kill them before they can relapse...

-Hyp.

 

[Corben Willemne]

A Paldin's job is to defend the weak the helpless and the opressed. To stand for what is right and defend that position. Not to go into the goblins lair and set fire to it on every tuesday lest one of the creatures survives. For one how is he setting an example? All he's teaching is do it to them first which is a classic evil standpoint! I don't think people here have thought about the nuances involved in what is good.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Regrettable, but Not Evil. The sentry has made a choice. He's chosen to attach himself to the evil human army, helping further the evil human army's goals and objectives. His death is unfortunate, but cannot be helped.

And what if the evil sentry's evil children-of-the-corn human daughter is sleeping in his lap? From past experience, it's known that these nasty kids will raise the alarm just to spite you...

-Hyp.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Well ok lets take that to its conclusion.
Does a Paladin "whack" a guy because he is in danger of becoming evil? A human? at birth? Who may make the wrong decision in sixteen years? Thats farsical and typical of an America Military philosophy of shoot it, it may move soon!

Corben, I'm having a hard time following your line of reasoning.

My point was that the existence of a paladin, who is by nature good and virtuous, and yet is charged with the smiting of Evil, invalidates your assertion that it's never good and virtuous to smite Evil.

What exactly are you taking to its conclusion? I haven't made any statement that even remotely leads to pre-emptive smiting of those who might become evil.

Is this just a straw man set up to try and make my comments seem "farsical"? I'm afraid I'm more confused than anything. And why make an attack on America? What was the point of that, other than to try and inflame Americans who might be participating in this thread?

 

[Corben Willemne]

Corben, I'm having a hard time following your line of reasoning.

My point was that the existence of a paladin, who is by nature good and virtuous, and yet is charged with the smiting of Evil, invalidates your assertion that it's never good and virtuous to smite Evil.

What exactly are you taking to its conclusion? I haven't made any statement that even remotely leads to pre-emptive smiting of those who might become evil.

Is this just a straw man set up to try and make my comments seem "farsical"? I'm afraid I'm more confused than anything. And why make an attack on America? What was the point of that, other than to try and inflame Americans who might be participating in this thread?

I try to inflame no one. Just stating a point. You advocate the RULE of if its evil kill it.
That is a facist point of view. Remeber Hitler labeled Jews as evil and so had them all slaughtered. Is this a job for a Paladin? I think not.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

And what if the evil sentry's evil children-of-the-corn human daughter is sleeping in his lap? From past experience, it's known that these nasty kids will raise the alarm just to spite you...

She dies. Regrettable, but Not Evil.

Really, though more difficult to accept, it's the same justification for the child as it is for the father. In the difficult morass of wartime morality, the sentry and his daughter are threatening my life and the lives of those I care about. I'm defending me and mine, and therefore these deaths aren't evil, though they certainly aren't good.

The question would be more difficult if the child were not an evil children-of-the-corn girl, and were instead an innocent girl with Good tendancies, who would nevertheless raise the alarm for fear of her father's life. That one would require a lot more thought. I'm tending towards Evil on that one, which is the problem with even a justified War.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I try to inflame no one. Just stating a point. You advocate the RULE of if its evil kill it.
That is a facist point of view. Remeber Hitler labeled Jews as evil and so had them all slaughtered. Is this a job for a Paladin? I think not.

I advocate no such thing. Before you start throwing around words like fascist and Hitler, perhaps you should re-read the posts in the thread, and understand various posters' viewpoints.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Remeber Hitler labeled Jews as evil and so had them all slaughtered. Is this a job for a Paladin? I think not.

But the Paladin doesn't have to take Hitler's word for it.

He can tell whether someone is evil (or undead, or the target of a spell with the [Evil] descriptor, or a creature with the [Evil] subtype, or a neutral cleric of an evil deity, or the target of a Misdirection spell aimed at an evil object) in the objective sense. Not according to someone's definition of evil, but according to the Laws of the Universe.

-Hyp.

 

[haakon1]

I should note that I've never bought into the "killing someone who's helpless is worse than killing someone who can kill you back," so the fact that the sentry is dozing doesn't make any difference, for me.

I agree. Not chivalrous, but chivalry and good are different concepts.

And BTW IMC, paladins don't have to be chivalrous, just good. So, there can be paladins from cultures with no real chivalry concept, like Vikings.

 

[Hypersmurf]

The question would be more difficult if the child were not an evil children-of-the-corn girl, and were instead an innocent girl with Good tendancies, who would nevertheless raise the alarm for fear of her father's life.

Is there a difference, though? Remember, humans can always change... there's the potential for Good tendencies in the evil children-of-the-corn girl, which was what drove your initial answer of 'killing human children is always evil', wasn't it?

-Hyp.