Player: "I need to level up so I can do cool stuff!"

[innerdude]

So unexpectedly, I've been thrown back into the GM ring for a short Pathfinder mini-campaign.....that from the enthusiastic responses from players so far, may turn into a midi- or maxi-campaign.

(I suppose I should be flattered that they asked, and grateful they seem to be immensely enjoying it so far, it's just that I was really enjoying not having to GM, and just playing. Even if it was GURPS, which I'm fairly lukewarm to as a system.)

I'm using the Golarion campaign setting, but with home-brew adventures/encounters.

And it's been a good run for three sessions now, but last week one of the players said something that sort of "stuck in my craw" (a.k.a., the subject line of this post)--"I need to level up so I can do cool stuff!"

And is it just me, or is there something inherently.....not wrong, but disingenuous? Misguided, perhaps, in saying that?

Some of it is totally the player. He's a self-acknowledged power-gamer, though between begging for stuff that makes him more "uber" he also manages some decent roleplaying occasionally.

But at the same time, this attitude is very much the type of thing I'm frankly sick of dealing with when I roleplay. When he said it, I wish I would have said, "Why is 'doing cool stuff' limited to the stuff that's on your character sheet? You're telling me your character can't explore, interact, plot, discover, and fight using interesting tactics based on your current capabilities? As if suddenly when you get your next feat/spell/class ability you'll suddenly be able to 'play your character' better?"

The rest of the group seems to really be into their characters and the group dynamic, and even his attitude isn't that bad, it's just that he's always done this for the 7-8 years we've been playing together off and on, and I think I'm just.....sort of "burnt" on even having to think about it. It's not that the act itself is so egregious, it's the fact that I have to expend any energy at all to counteract it that annoys me.

Obviously I'm not going to fundamentally change him as a player, but I'm wondering if there's anything I can do circumstantially to get him to temporarily look at his character from a different angle other than, "I can't cast level 3 spells yet, my sorcerer sucks"?

 

[Janx]

When it comes to offense, some times people choose to be offended. To take umbrage, to get their feathers ruffled.

Particularly over something that has no effect on you if you ignore it.

If I slosh my drink on you, whether you take offense or not, you still have kool-aid on it. So harm has been done, and thus offense can legitimately exist.

If the player says something stupid, like he did, why should it affect you at all.

You could choose to interpret it as a slander against your game, that nothing cool has happened yet.

Or you could interpret it that your player is being a dork and keep running your game as usual.

Unless his statement is a flag that your game is boring or has serious problems, the perceptional problem is his, so continue to run your game as you always have.

 

[Halivar]

There are plenty of examples from literary epics of characters who are driven by dissatisfaction with their power level, who go and quest kill things just to gain more power to perform ever greater exploits.

Heck, the best example I can think of off the top of my head is the earliest known epic, concerning Gilgamesh and his companion, Enkidu.

 

[JamesonCourage]

I've most often encountered this after a transition from high level to low level play. For example, if the players have 15th hit die characters, and we finish the campaign and start a new campaign at 3rd hit die (about 1 hit die less than the average adult in the world), then my players sometimes feel restricted. I've found that the feeling fades away by the end of the first session most of the time, though.

If I were you, I'd just let him play the game with his character (level 1-5 Sorcerer?). I'm sure if he's really into the mechanics of the game, he'll pick versatile spells and use them creatively to great effect. I'd just compliment his uses when he uses something in a creative way with a level 1 or 2 spell ("wow, nice use" goes a long way towards someone feeling like they're useful).

I don't think you can get him to stop looking forward to his next abilities or spells. That's something all of my players looked forward to when we played D&D. The, "wow, next level I get X" is a pretty strong driving force to want to level up. Now that we play my game (classless), that seems to have disappeared entirely, so in my personal experience (that is, I think that this applies to my group, if no one else), the 'problem' seems to be stemming from classes and bonuses that are for sure going to be applied. Knowing that you'll get 2nd level spells and Invisibility next hit die seems to really make my players look forward to mechanical progression. So, because of the class system, I don't think it'd be possible for my players to break away from that in a D&D game.

However, I do think you can make him feel like he "can do cool stuff" before that point, just by being encouraging. And, like I said, if he's very into the system, he'll probably be inventive enough to find ways to be useful. Just make sure to compliment spell usage, tactics, etc., but do the same in RPing opportunities. After they're done lying to the guards that stopped them, compliment his quick thinking, etc. This will go a long way towards encouraging that type of behavior, too. After a couple of sessions, you can even point out how much "cool stuff" he's been doing without the Fly spell.

At any rate, just my two cents. As always, play what you like

 

[Summer-Knight925]

one of my players is like that, to the point where he demands certain treasure in order for him to 'play how he wants to play'


now it is different with me, that player is my dad so I can't really kick him out of the group without risking..you know...no longer being fed

but the best option is to ignore that, if it continues then don't deal with him...or in other words, kick him out.

 

[Dice4Hire]

Well, getting new abilities is cool, at least for me.

So I can understand that, but it is not good to just look forward to the next level, and look down on this level, even if level-based systems really tend to encourage that style of play with the long list and endless pages devoted to what can be done at higher levels.

But he has been playing long enough to be past all that.

As for a solution, you probably cannot change him, but can encourage him to play inteh moment, especially if you have slow advancement. Also, handing out non-character sheet awards can be helpful. When one of my DMs really started hitting reputation hard, the group started competing for that, and kinda forgot about our class abilities for a while.

 

[Mark CMG]

(. . .) one of the players said something that sort of "stuck in my craw" (a.k.a., the subject line of this post)--"I need to level up so I can do cool stuff!"

And is it just me, or is there something inherently.....not wrong, but disingenuous? Misguided, perhaps, in saying that?

Some of it is totally the player. He's a self-acknowledged power-gamer, though between begging for stuff that makes him more "uber" he also manages some decent roleplaying occasionally.

But at the same time, this attitude is very much the type of thing I'm frankly sick of dealing with when I roleplay.

Tell the player he cannot level up until you feel he has done cool stuff at his current level.

 

[Agamon]

Different players want different things out of a game. That kind of thinking isn't wrong, it's just different than yours. As a GM, you need to accept that or find players with the same ideal gameplay as your own.

The thing about Pathfinder is that you do get "cool new stuff" whenever you level. That was part of the "no dead levels" design philosophy. So you can't really fault him for thinking that. There are other games that reward outside-the-box thinking (7th Sea, Exalted), whereas D&D and Pathfinder reward you for gaining levels.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

[Cat]If I am doing something then it is cool! [/Cat]

The Auld Grump

 

[Henry]

And it's been a good run for three sessions now, but last week one of the players said something that sort of "stuck in my craw" (a.k.a., the subject line of this post)--"I need to level up so I can do cool stuff!"

And is it just me, or is there something inherently.....not wrong, but disingenuous? Misguided, perhaps, in saying that?

...When he said it, I wish I would have said, "Why is 'doing cool stuff' limited to the stuff that's on your character sheet? You're telling me your character can't explore, interact, plot, discover, and fight using interesting tactics based on your current capabilities? As if suddenly when you get your next feat/spell/class ability you'll suddenly be able to 'play your character' better?"

Instead of asking, "your character can't explore, interact, plot, discover, and fight using interesting tactics based on your current capabilities?" perhaps a better question would be, "what do you feel that you're doing now that's 'not cool?'"

I'm still huge fan of Robin's Laws of good gamemastering and one of the important questions to ask is, "is there anything I can identify that is easy to insert into the game session that will give each player their "emotional kick" that makes them feel like they've had a good session?"

A comment like that, unsolicited, free of peer pressure, is pure gold in terms of genuine feedback that a GM can use to get that player more involved in their game.

You sound like you get great feedback already, and players are enjoying themselves. However, it's always worth analyzing something like this, identify to yourself what the player is REALLY asking for in the statement, instead of what's on the surface. We can't do it for you -- you know your game better than anyone. If you can figure out what this really means for this player, you might be able to turn a good player into a fantastic one. Is it a case where he feels he doesn't have enough reinforcement to try something outside the hard mechanical rules for his PC? Does he not understand you're more willing to let him perform cool stunts than he sees? Is it just that he doesn't necessarily look for pure mechanical power, but just some form of status or recognition of prowess or wealth to reaffirm that his character is cool? Could there be missing a chance for him to "open a can of whip-ass" on a group of creatures and show how far his character has come from a 1st level Commoner? It's not often that it's as simple as "this player won't be happy until he has Fireball/Whirlwind Attack" -- many times, the levelling is a symbol for him or her having the rules backing to get into the type of gameplay they want to have instead of what they have now.

Just my experience and input, anyway -- many times, giving the player that one chance to shine at their playstyle (Power Game, Method Actor, Specialist, Storyteller, etc.) makes them happier than a pig in mud for the rest of the session.