Player input please on a couple of custom world rules...

And regarding my second point:
Go through the official adventure modules and count how many level 1 magic items they include. Now go and count again.

The answer is NOT zero.

Official Adventure modules don't use the basic ruleset provided in the DMG.

So, yes, things that don't use the basic ruleset provided in the DMG do not follow the assumptions set forth in it.

And, yes, some players will buy level 1 magic items.

But many DMs use the treasure guidelines set in the DMG, using wishlists as per the DMG, and the first thing on most wishlists (if the players need that item most of all) is their first weapon.

So, one player gets theirs level 2, the rest at level 1, and maybe a ranger or a fighter will get that second +1 Magic weapon to put in their other hand... maybe.

If you go -outside- the DMG guidelines tho, I obviously cannot comment.
 

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While I appreciate the humor, a +1 Lifedrinker (level 5) is still a +1 sword... ;)

PS

A +1 Lifedrinker sword is not a +1 Magic sword.

'+1 Magic' is a specific entry for a level 1 Magic item that has the bonus but nothing else. I mean 'Magic' in the exact same sense you mean 'Lifedrinker'
 

A +1 Lifedrinker sword is not a +1 Magic sword.

'+1 Magic' is a specific entry for a level 1 Magic item that has the bonus but nothing else. I mean 'Magic' in the exact same sense you mean 'Lifedrinker'

If a +1 Lifedrinker isn't a +1 sword, what is its plus? ;)

Note that at no time did I specifically call out "+1 Magic sword" :D

PS

P.S. Sorry for the threadjack bobcat_grad
 

My thoughts as a player...

1. You can't make magic items more "WOW" by making them harder to get. You just make it more frustrating. The only way to make them more WOW is to bash your players over the head giving them a case of amnesia where they forget having seen or heard of all the different items making them all brand new.

2. Disallowing purchases of items based on type and locale makes a lot of game sense and doesn't really disrupt 4e as it was meant to be played. Magic items aren't really supposed to be shopped around anymore anyway.

3. Disallowing the wizard from being able to craft items fairly easily messes up a lot with the design of 4e. The ease of crafting and transferring enchantments was the bandaid put over the only-getting-20%-value wound. If you take away the bandaid you leave the party without an otherwised assumed avenue of keeping up with the Jones'.

4. One of the biggest things that makes 4e characters less versatile is the narrowness of the feat and power descriptions. If my dwarven fighter invested in lots of feats and powers that uses a +1 Hammer is handed a +6 Greatsword....its probably not in my best interest to use it.

5. I suggest you instead hand out "Item Upgrades" instead of treasure parcels so that the dwarf with a +1 Magic Hammer can ease into a +2 Thundering Hammer and then a +3 Throwing Hammer as he progresses. Explain it as the same weapon he has used all along, it just performs better as he learn new tricks of the trade and hidden talents. If a character has a LVL 7 item and you hand him a LVL 12 item upgrade he could get the 20% value from his original weapon as cash on hand and pick out a LVL 12 item that suits his fancy. I even support the idea of being able to pick out a lower level item instead and get the difference in cash as well but some might disagree.

This would actually make the weapons more WOW than just being traded in later.

DS
 

If a +1 Lifedrinker isn't a +1 sword, what is its plus? ;)

Note that at no time did I specifically call out "+1 Magic sword" :D

No, but you responded to -me- saying a +1 Magic weapon is one of the rarest of items [going strictly by DMG guidelines] with that... if you knew what I meant then I have no idea what your comment was supposed to mean.

Unless it was to say, 'Ha ha, but seriously, there's better stuff you get instead' in which case I'd say 'Yep.'
 

My thoughts as a player...

1. You can't make magic items more "WOW" by making them harder to get. You just make it more frustrating. The only way to make them more WOW is to bash your players over the head giving them a case of amnesia where they forget having seen or heard of all the different items making them all brand new.

Actually, this is definitely not the case for all players. For example, I know one game where people do go wow at many items, but have no access to certain magic items. It's cooler than what they had, they weren't expecting it to be available, so when they get it instead of going 'Meh, maybe it's better than what I got' they go 'Ooh, I could use that!'

3. Disallowing the wizard from being able to craft items fairly easily messes up a lot with the design of 4e. The ease of crafting and transferring enchantments was the bandaid put over the only-getting-20%-value wound. If you take away the bandaid you leave the party without an otherwised assumed avenue of keeping up with the Jones'.

Weirdly enough, many parties don't have the ability to enchant magic items at all, so this argument falls flat. It's actually quite possible to have a fully functioning game of D&D that neither allows buying _or_ selling of magic items. It just requires giving out more magic items or balancing encounters appropriately.

4. One of the biggest things that makes 4e characters less versatile is the narrowness of the feat and power descriptions. If my dwarven fighter invested in lots of feats and powers that uses a +1 Hammer is handed a +6 Greatsword....its probably not in my best interest to use it.

Eh, +5 to hit and damage (greatsword) vs. +2 hit, +2 damage, maybe Con on miss. Greatsword totally wins.

But, yes, agreed once you tone down the example. Though I think that says more about the problems with many of the feats than with the items.

5. I suggest you instead hand out "Item Upgrades" instead of treasure parcels so that the dwarf with a +1 Magic Hammer can ease into a +2 Thundering Hammer and then a +3 Throwing Hammer as he progresses. Explain it as the same weapon he has used all along, it just performs better as he learn new tricks of the trade and hidden talents. If a character has a LVL 7 item and you hand him a LVL 12 item upgrade he could get the 20% value from his original weapon as cash on hand and pick out a LVL 12 item that suits his fancy. I even support the idea of being able to pick out a lower level item instead and get the difference in cash as well but some might disagree.

This is often a cool thing to do, and can even be quite thematic. Like 'As you chop off the red dragon's head, its blood running down your blade bursts into flame. Now it's a +2 Flaming' or whatever.
 

5. I suggest you instead hand out "Item Upgrades" instead of treasure parcels so that the dwarf with a +1 Magic Hammer can ease into a +2 Thundering Hammer and then a +3 Throwing Hammer as he progresses. Explain it as the same weapon he has used all along, it just performs better as he learn new tricks of the trade and hidden talents. If a character has a LVL 7 item and you hand him a LVL 12 item upgrade he could get the 20% value from his original weapon as cash on hand and pick out a LVL 12 item that suits his fancy. I even support the idea of being able to pick out a lower level item instead and get the difference in cash as well but some might disagree.

This would actually make the weapons more WOW than just being traded in later.

DS

This is actually something I'm going to offer up as we go along as quest rewards from certain NPCs they come across. I got this idea when one of my players sent me his character's backstory about a love/hate relationship she had with her axe. She needs it, knows it's exceedingly effective, but hates the killing she inflicts using it. The player even gave it a name.

I thought it would stink if two levels in he was given a completely different weapon for his character. So, that gave me the idea to have the chance to have his weapon get more effective as time goes on.
 

This is actually something I'm going to offer up as we go along as quest rewards from certain NPCs they come across. I got this idea when one of my players sent me his character's backstory about a love/hate relationship she had with her axe. She needs it, knows it's exceedingly effective, but hates the killing she inflicts using it. The player even gave it a name.

I thought it would stink if two levels in he was given a completely different weapon for his character. So, that gave me the idea to have the chance to have his weapon get more effective as time goes on.

I would look at the artifact rules for this. I'll be doing this for my son (10 years old). After making his character he came up with the 1000 year long story of his family's ancestral hammer... I'm not seeing his PC replacing that anytime soon!

PS
 

5. I suggest you instead hand out "Item Upgrades" instead of treasure parcels so that the dwarf with a +1 Magic Hammer can ease into a +2 Thundering Hammer and then a +3 Throwing Hammer as he progresses. Explain it as the same weapon he has used all along, it just performs better as he learn new tricks of the trade and hidden talents.

This would actually make the weapons more WOW than just being traded in later.

I'd love for something like this to be supported by 4e's mechanics, but alas.
 


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