Clouded Mirror is a fun way to play (using your term), but I would count that as policing what characters do and think. Kind of a hybrid metagame, I suppose?
D&D 5E player knowlege vs character knowlege (spoiler)
- Thread starter auburn2
- Start date
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Guest 6801328
Guest
Oh, and one of my favorite stories about rogues scouting out ahead. I was DMing short scenarios for my nephew (12 at the time) and my son (5 at the time). My son was playing a rogue, and his cousin told him to scout ahead down the pitch-black tunnel. Naturally his cousin listened eagerly, even though he wasn't "there". As he got to the part where the sides of the tunnel fell away, and he could tell by the echoes and air currents that he must be a vast cavern, the cousin blurted out excited, "What do you find?"
As I was gathering my thoughts to start describing it, my son jumped in and started describing a cave with spears and shields hanging on the walls. He had no idea this was typically the DMs job; he assumed that his cousin's question meant he was supposed to start describing it.
What a bunch of dirty metagamers.
No...wait. What I meant to say was that it was awesome. I did intervene, and explain that the room was so dark that he couldn't see the walls, but of course after they fought the dragon and its kobold minions and started exploring with a light source, they found...spears and shields on the walls. Of course.
As I was gathering my thoughts to start describing it, my son jumped in and started describing a cave with spears and shields hanging on the walls. He had no idea this was typically the DMs job; he assumed that his cousin's question meant he was supposed to start describing it.
What a bunch of dirty metagamers.
No...wait. What I meant to say was that it was awesome. I did intervene, and explain that the room was so dark that he couldn't see the walls, but of course after they fought the dragon and its kobold minions and started exploring with a light source, they found...spears and shields on the walls. Of course.
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Guest 6801328
Guest
How?
If the players talking translates into the characters talking (though not using the same exact words), then that means the characters are taking actions even if the player doesn't want them to.
Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
That's............not metagaming. Cool, but not metagaming.
Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
Um, your argument means that nothing can ever be in-character, because since you always know that you are in-character, you are always out of character, which is complete bunk.
Charlaquin
Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
I wouldn’t say it’s policing what they do or think at all. That’s still up to the players.
Charlaquin
Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
If they don’t want their characters to do/say something they can just not say it.
Policing the players directly?
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Guest 6801328
Guest
What? I can’t tell if you’re confused or just trying to...something.
Unless I am misunderstanding, I think she is saying the players have to be quiet if they want their characters to be quiet.
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Guest 6801328
Guest
I guess it's possible that I'm misunderstanding, but I thought @Charlaquin meant that everybody is speaking using present day language and idioms and grammar, and adding metagame commentary ("Natural 20! Critical!"), and even non-game asides ("WHERE'S THE CHEETOHS!??!!?") and the players all just interpret/filter as necessary to "hear" things in-character. The player says "Natural 20!" but what the other players hear/see is blood spray across the room as the character lands a mighty blow.
Which is the point I was trying to make to @Maxperson: if "Natural 20! Critical!" doesn't yank you jarringly out-of-character, then neither should, "She's a Lich; I read that in a novel." It's a choice to be affected differently by those two things.
Charlaquin
Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
You are both essentially correct. What you say translates, through the clouded mirror effect, to what occurs in the fiction. So, when you make references to real-life pop culture and technology, your character makes equivalent references to something in the setting that would evoke a similar reaction. When you talk about being low on HP, your character says something in-fiction that communicates similar information about their wellbeing. And when you talk, out loud, about whether or not you should kill this guard, so do your characters (unless you’re actually using Telepathic Bond or something).
I don’t see how it’s “policing” anything to rule that what you say translates to what your characters say.
Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
Combat does pull me out of character, yes. I prefer as few rolls as possible when I play. When I DM, I'm flipping around between so many characters and out of character that in-character isn't even really much of a thing. I can't immerse myself like I can as a player.
Well, it seems like you are saying the players cannot talk about in game things without their characters also talking.
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Guest 6801328
Guest
Oh oh oh oh. Now I see what you were saying. Through this whole thread we've been talking about policing character's thoughts, so when you used the word "policing" I thought you were using it in that context.
But you're really talking about something entirely different. Yes, it sounds like it's a table rule that is enforced not by telling players what they can and can't do, but rather through consequences. And it's not any kind of constraint on character thought, nor a constraint on what actions they can take based on what they are supposed to know or not know. I suppose any sort of rule enforcement could be called "policing", so you could apply the word here as well, if you wished.
Yeah. It seems like the players are not prevented from doing anything, but their characters will take potentially unwanted actions in game. So the end result looks like conditioning players.
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Guest 6801328
Guest
It takes some getting used to, that's for sure. I don't (usually) play this way and when I do I forget and have lots of "oops" moments.
But I'm hyper-sensitive to DMs telling me what my character thinks (I even get prickly about stuff like, "you think he's lying"), and rules like this one don't bother me at all.
The heart likes what it likes!
Charlaquin
Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
I don’t understand. In what way would characters take unwanted actions? If you don’t want your character to take an action, literally all you have to do is not say your character takes it...
