[Players Chosen] Do You Have What It Takes To Join The Nameless Legion?

[AmorFati]

AmorFati, please note, that a sudden metamagicked spell would also count as a higher level spell for the purpose of storing it in a ring of spellstoring (or creating a magic item, etc).

Bye
Thanee

It does?
But the description of Sudden Empower says that I can cast it without increasing the level of the spell.

 

[Branding Opportunity]

I've had a couple of character concepts that I'd love to play (Skullcrusher ogre fighter, fiendish pixie warmage, spriggan barbarian,) but I just don't think I have the time to spare. Hope y'all have a great time!

 

[Thanee]

It's just common sense.

The sudden feats are balanced with the 1/day limit versus the spontaneous use/no level increase.
For magic items, the 1/day limit does not apply, as they have their own limits, which are independent of that one.
It's only reasonable to have the benefit not apply as well then, and refer to the regular metamagic feat, mimicked by the sudden one.

Think about this way... if it was not like that, you could create a wand of quickened, empowered, maximized enervation for the same cost as normal wand of enervation and stuff like that.

Bye
Thanee

 

[AmorFati]

It's just common sense.

The sudden feats are balanced with the 1/day limit versus the spontaneous use/no level increase.
For magic items, the 1/day limit does not apply, as they have their own limits, which are independent of that one.
It's only reasonable to have the benefit not apply as well then, and refer to the regular metamagic feat, mimicked by the sudden one.

Think about this way... if it was not like that, you could create a wand of quickened, empowered, maximized enervation for the same cost as normal wand of enervation and stuff like that.

Bye
Thanee

I don't know, honestly.
It just seems weird to me that I could use some Metamagic feats for it, but not other.
Are there any written rules about this? If not, I'd need the gm's ruling about it.

 

[Someone]

Name: Warfiend.
Class: Favored Soul (of Hextor) 11
Race: Aasimar
Size: Medium
Gender: Male
Alignment: Lawful Neutral

Str: 16 +3 ( 6p. +2 level advancement)     
Dex: 12 +1 ( 4p. )     
Con: 16 +3 ( 4p. +4 enhancement)     
Int: 10 +0 ( 2p. )     
Wis: 18 +4 ( 10p. +2 racial)     
Cha: 20 +5 ( 6p. +2 racial +4 enhancement)     

ECL: 12          XP: 66000
BAB:  +8/+3      HP: 101 (11d8+33)
Grapple: +11     Dmg Red: 3/- (adamantine heavy armor)
Speed: 20'       Spell Res: -
Init:  +1        Spell Save: -
ACP:   -5        Spell Fail: -

                Base  Armor Shld   Dex  Size   Nat  Misc  Total
Armor=  20       10    8     1      1
Touch: 11          Flatfooted: 19

Saves:
                         Base   Mod  Misc  Total
Fort:                      7    +3    +3    +13
Ref:                       7    +1    +3    +11
Will:                      7    +4    +3    +14


Racial and class abilities:
Aasimar:
-Native outsider type: Darkvision 60 feet, can be raised and resurrected.
-+2 Wisdom, +2 Charisma
-Resistance to acid, cold and electricity 5
-Daylight 1/day with a CL of 11
-+2 to Spot and Listen checks (already accounted in the skills)

Favored soul:
-Proficiency with all simple weapons and light flail, all shields (but not tower shields), light and medium armor.
-Spells
-Weapon focus (Flail) bonus feat.
-Energy resistance 10 (Fire and Sonic)


Weapon                   Attack   Damage
+2 cold iron Light flail +14+9    1d8+5
Dagger (melee)           +11+6    1d4+3
Dagger (ranged)          +9+4     1d4+3

Languages: Common, Celestial.

Feats: 
Heavy armor proficiency (1st level)
Augmented healing (3rd level)
Weapon Focus (flail) (3rd level favored soul bonus feat)
Power attack (6th level)
Cleave (9th)

Skill Points: 28 Max Ranks: 14/7
Skills                   Ranks  Mod  Misc  Total
Concentration             14     +3         +17
Heal                       4     +4         +8
Sense Motive              10     +4         +14
Diplomacy                  0     +5    +2   +7
Intimidate                 0     +5    +2   +7  
Spot                       0     +4    +2   +6
Listen                     0     +4    +2   +6

Spells per day: (6/8/7/7/7/5) Save DC: 14 + spell level
Spells known:

5th level: Flame strike, Spell resistance, Slay living.
4th level: Cure critical wounds, Recitation, Divine power, Restoration.
3rd level: Mass resist energy, Magic circle against chaos, Dispel magic, Magic Vestment, Invisibility purge.
2nd level: Cure moderate wounds, Spiritual weapon, Owl´s Wisdom, Hold Person, Death knell, Shatter
1st level: Divine favor, Shield of faith, Resurgence, Command, Remove fear, Obscuring mist.
Orisons:   Detect magic, Read magic, Cure minor wounds, Create water, Detect Poison, Guidance, Light, Mending, Purify food and drink.

Equipment:                       Cost 
Tattoo of amity                  free
Adamantine full plate           16,5k
MW Buckler                      0,15k
+2 cold iron light flail          10k
Cloak of charisma +4              16k
Amulet of health +4               16k
Winged boots                      16k
Vest of resistance +3              9k
Wand of lesser vigor            0,75k
Ring of counterspells              4k
(with Dispel Magic)
Divine focus (defaced symbol of Heironeous)
Spell component pouch
Restoration MCx3                 0,3k
Scroll of Raise dead           6,125k

Money: 5000 gp
             
Age: ??
Height: 6´2´´
Weight: 200 lb
Eyes: Golden
Hair: White

Appareance and background: [sblock]Warfiend prepares for battle wearing a specially made black adamantine armor, with fearsome spikes and skulls as a decoration. When not in batle, he´s difficult to see, but favors black tunics.

Tales of fallen angels count in the higuest rank of the sad tales among celestials, and of the greatest archievements among infernals. Though a mere mortal with some drops of celestial blood isn´t in the same basket as a powerful celestial, it´s still a small cosmic tragedy one of them turn to darkness and cruelty.

Warfiend isn´t totally sane. The speculation most likely to be true are that he was probably a champion of Heironeous, forced to join the Legion for unknow causes. With his memory wiped, and the life in the legion, his instinctive remaining ethics warped towards ruthless efficiency. Eventually, the link between him and his god broke, and Hextor took his place; both as a better god for a member of the amoral forces of the Legion and as an opportunity to mock his half-brother. However, the dissonance between his celestial blood and his new, dark powers, has started to take his toll, though Warfiend doesn´t totally understand what´s happening to him.

That, however, doesn´t interfere with his resolution in combat -and thus the Paymasters haven´t cared about his problems- There he becomes fearless and efficient, and terrible when he invokes the powers of the god of tyranny.[/sblock]

 

[AmorFati]

From the SRD: As a spellcaster’s knowledge of magic grows, she can learn to cast spells in ways slightly different from the ways in which the spells were originally designed or learned. Preparing and casting a spell in such a way is harder than normal but, thanks to metamagic feats, at least it is possible. Spells modified by a metamagic feat use a spell slot higher than normal. This does not change the level of the spell, so the DC for saving throws against it does not go up.


Seems to me it's perfectly valid to use Sudden metamagics then.

 

[Thanee]

Yeah, but if you check out the ring of spellstoring you'll find this:

A spellcaster can cast any spells into the ring, so long as the total spell levels do not add up to more than three. Metamagic versions of spells take up storage space equal to their spell level modified by the metamagic feat.

So, if you use a normal metamagic feat, the spell level is actually considered to be higher (altho it is not actually higher).

For example, an empowered magic missile can be stored, taking up three spell levels worth, but it still counts only as a 1st level spell when cast.

The intent here should be obvious enough... the spell takes up so much levels as its power is worth. A sudden empowered magic missile is exactly the same power as an empowered magic missile, the only differences lie in how the metamagic is applied during the casting process, but the ring should not make any difference between them, since they are effectively the same spell.

Bye
Thanee

 

[AmorFati]

The question is, does a Sudden Empower count as a modified Empower (so it counts as +2 levels), or as a seperate feat. (so it counts as +0 levels)

The feat descrition says:
1/day, you can apply the effect of the Empower Spell feat to any spell you cast without increasing the level of the spell.

It does not say:
1/day, you can use your Empower Spell feat to Empower a spell without increasing the level of the spell, as usual.

Furthermore, if it was a modified Empower, wouldn't the prerequesite include: Empower Spell Feat, not Any Metamagic feat?

Anyway, I'll leave this to the DM. I'm just getting confused by all this semantics, hehe.

 

[Thanee]

The question is, does a Sudden Empower count as a modified Empower (so it counts as +2 levels), or as a seperate feat. (so it counts as +0 levels)

That is not the point, tho.

Sudden Empower is just a variant of Empower Spell; of course, it is a seperate feat, because it is an alternate version, which is of more use for prepared spellcasters.

The real point is, that the intent is clearly not to have sudden metamagic feats be abused like this (or even worse as the example of the wand above, which would then also be possible with the same loophole).

Anyway, I'll leave this to the DM.

Of course, just explaining, why it can only be intended as I said above.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Elocin]

Name: "Screech"
Class: Warmage 12
Race: Human
Size: Medium
Gender: Male
Alignment: N

Str: 12 +1        Level: 12       XP: 66000/78000
Dex: 14 +2        BAB: +6/1       HP: 84 (12d6+24)
Con: 14 +2        Grapple: +7     Dmg Red: 
Int: 14 +2        Speed: 40'      Spell Res: 
Wis: 12 +2        Init: +2        Spell Save:
Cha: 20 +5        ACP:            Spell Fail: 

                   Base  Armor Shld   Dex  Size   Nat  Misc  Total
Armor:              10    +9    +4    +2    +0    +0    +0    25
Touch: 12              Flatfooted: 23

                         Base   Mod  Misc  Total
Fort:                      4    +1    +3    +8
Ref:                       4    +2    +3    +9
Will:                      8    +1    +3    +12

Weapon                 Attack   Damage  Critical	Range
Light Crossbow +1	+9	1d8+1	19-20x2		80'
Morningstar +1		+8/+3	1d8+2	   20x2

Languages: Common, Draconic, Infernal

Abilities: 
Advanced Learning
Armored Mage (light)
Armored Mage (medium)
Prof. Light Armor
Prof. Shields
Prof. Simple Weapons
Spells
Sudden Empower
Sudden Enlarge
Warmage Edge - +2 damage with damaging spells
Tattoo of Amity - +2 Morale bonus to Diplomacy and Intimidate

Spellcasting:
Warmage: DC 15+ (CL12)
0: 6  1st: 8  2nd: 7  3rd: 7  4th: 7  5th: 6  6th: 3 


Feats:
Chain Spell
Energy Admixture: Sonic
Energy Substitution: Sonic
Maximize Spell
Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot

Skill Points: 60         Max Ranks: 15/7.5
Skills                   Ranks  Mod  Misc  Total
Appraise		   0	+2	     +2
Balance			   0	+2    +2     +4
Bluff			   0	+5	     +5
Climb			   0	+1	     +1
Concentration		  15    +2          +17
Diplomacy		   0	+5    +2     +7
Disguise		   0	+5	     +5
Escape Artist		   0	+2	     +2
Forgery			   0    +2           +2
Gather Information	   0    +5           +5
Heal			   9    +5    +2    +16
Intimidate		   0	+5    +2     +7
Jump			   0	+1   +11    +12
KN: Arcana		  15    +2          +17
Listen			   0    +1           +1
Move Silently		 7.5	+2	   +9.5
Ride			   0	+2	     +2
Search			   0	+2	     +2
Sense Motive		   0	+1	     +1
Spellcraft		  15    +2    +2    +19
Spot			   0    +1           +1
Survival		   0    +1           +1
Swim			   0    +1           +1
Tumble			 7.5	+2	   +9.5
Use Rope		   0	+2	     +2

Equipment:           	     		Cost  Weight
Tattoo of Amity
Mithril Chain Shirt +5	     		26100   10
Mithril Buckler +3	      		 9165    2
Light Crossbow +1			 2335    4
Circlet of Resistance +3		 9000
Ring of Counter Spells (Disintegrate)	 4000
Ring of Sustenance			 2500
Cloak of Charisma +2			 4000    2
Amulet of Health +2			 4000
Boots of Striding and Springing		 5500    1
Vestments of Steadfast Spellcasting	25000
40 Bolts			            4	 4

Handy Haversack				 2000	 5
-Bedroll
-2 Waterskins
-4 Sunrods
-10 Days Rations
-Winter Blankek
-Case, Map or Scroll
-Flask
-Flint and steel
-Ink (vial) 2
-Inkpen
-Mirror, small steel
-Paper (sheet) 4
-Paper (parchment) 4
-Soap 1 lb
Total Weight:34lb      Money: 4042gp 5sp 7cp

               Lgt   Med   Hvy  Lift  Push
Max Weight:    43     86   130   260   650

Age: 25
Height: 5'7"
Weight: 130lb
Eyes: Blue
Hair: Black
Skin: Tanned