Players Completely Ignoring Adventure Hooks

[Silveras]

Correct me if I am wrong, but it sounds like people are missing the point.

• Player decides to play a Divine Champion - an active proponent of his faith and protector of the followers of that faith.
• Player receives a dream vision telling him he must visit 3 temples of his faith.
• Player visits 1st temple. An incident has occurred in which followers of his faith are missing. Investigation tells him where and how they disappeared, but not what happened to them.
• Party opts to return and report findings.
• On reporting findings, the Priest says "I will have to do something about this, personally".
• There is a long silence.
• Finally, head NPC priest says "I will go alone. Thank you, but now I must prepare."
• Party leaves to attend to the nothing in particular they had planned.

I see a lot of people focusing on the final admonition that the priest will go alone, seeing it as an order. I also see people ignoring the "expectant pause", the opportunity for the PC to volunteer. Further, I see people not connecting the vision that says "GO TO THESE PLACES" with the chance to do something there.

Sure, the PC is Lawful Neutral. That does not mean "can take no initiative". Sure, he obeys orders like a dutiful Helmite; but that also means he should be eager for the chance to rescue/defend fellow Helmites because that's his job as a Divine Champion.

 

[coyote6]

I think the player missed the boat, by not volunteering. Perhaps some young acolyte could have come after the PCs, and begged the Divine Champion to go help the priest. "He's been ill, I don't think he's qualified" or "There's something odd about him lately" (if the priest is hiding something, for example). A second hook may have worked.

Or, heck, Phil mentioned player greed -- have some young acolyte run up and ask them to find his friend/sister/brother, who snuck off after the priest, lured by rumors of faerie gold . . . The hint of tangible reward might have budged one or two of the other, non-committal PCs over to the "let's check this out" side.

As for it being his job as Divine Champion -- it may be that the player doesn't realize that. The player may not view being a divine champion as having any particular obligations of that sort. Sometimes people have odd (relative to one's own) views about stuff like that, if they even think about it.

 

[Harmon]

As for it being his job as Divine Champion -- it may be that the player doesn't realize that. The player may not view being a divine champion as having any particular obligations of that sort. Sometimes people have odd (relative to one's own) views about stuff like that, if they even think about it.

Good point all around. Something I would like to add is that the DC might be played by a Player that is thinking about other things- life issues, work, their own campaign, or perhaps they do not realize that more needs doing.

A lack of clues can also make a character wonder away from an adventure. Perhaps the Players did not understand that the could have gone through the portal/gate and survived.

Our group tends to miss things that I think the GM thinks is obvious, non of the NPCs point things out or give information without being asked a pointed question and that leads to some missed opportunities for campaign hooks.

 

[jmucchiello]

Correct me if I am wrong, but it sounds like people are missing the point.

Actually I think there is more than one point and some people are focusing more on a point you are focusing less on.

I see a lot of people focusing on the final admonition that the priest will go alone, seeing it as an order. I also see people ignoring the "expectant pause", the opportunity for the PC to volunteer. Further, I see people not connecting the vision that says "GO TO THESE PLACES" with the chance to do something there.

For all the guidance Helm has given him, the PC could assume they were to go there to get the head cleric go do something. Remember, Helm said go to three temples. Not go to a temple, spend time in Faerie, go to another temple, lollygag in Hell, go to another temple. Perhaps the PC thinks he must get to the three temples before going elsewhere.

Also, expectant pauses require that the player interpret them as expectant and not just awkward. Or made for emphasis. "I WILL GO!" (pause - don't even think of naysaying me) "That's settled." We don't know how well this was conveyed nor how perceptive the player is.

Sure, the PC is Lawful Neutral. That does not mean "can take no initiative". Sure, he obeys orders like a dutiful Helmite; but that also means he should be eager for the chance to rescue/defend fellow Helmites because that's his job as a Divine Champion.

I don't have the PrC in front of me, do it actually say that is what Divine Champions do? Rescue fellow worshipers?

The thing I find annoying is the DM saying: "And that's when he issued his final order, which I left as vague and open to interpretation as I could." Now, I'm not saying all Lawful gods are strict by-the-book types. But this is Helm. I don't think Helmite priests should be giving orders with wiggle room in them. If the priest wanted them to go, he should have said so. He should not have issued a purposely vague order that he expects a divine champion to disobey. I find that incredulous.

 

[Herpes Cineplex]

For all the guidance Helm has given him, the PC could assume they were to go there to get the head cleric go do something.

Absolutely. And there are a lot of other intangibles here, as well; if the head cleric outranks the divine champion (or the divine champion's player thinks the head cleric outranks him and no one tells him otherwise), he might very well assume that it's not his place to do anything other than make his report and wait for further orders. If the head cleric wanted him to do something, he would've given the order, not screwed around with expectant pauses and significant glances or crossing his fingers and hoping that the divine champion would step up to the plate without prompting.


But it's probably safest and simplest to just say that mistakes were made on both sides. The player's interpretation of what's going on and what's important is clearly not the same as the GM's interpretation, and so what looks to the GM to be a classic plot hook that was utterly ignored looks to the player like an awkward, unplanned sidetrack that had nothing to do with the important stuff.

Which may be a point in favor of being heavy-handed about these kinds of things. If your goal as a GM is to get the party to do something they're obviously not planning on doing, there's not much percentage in trying to "give them another chance to change their minds" indirectly. Go ahead and be direct. Be forceful. Try and figure out what obstacle is keeping them from committing to the plot, and clear it away (remember, you can always find a place to stick it into the game later on, after it's too late for them to back out ). Or maybe even ask the players a bunch of questions out-of-character to find out why they don't like the plot hook and what might work better...something which a lot of players are actually willing to discuss.

And if you're a player and the GM seems to be dangling a Bad Idea under your nose and getting pouty because you're ignoring it, make sure he understands why your PC isn't interested. Maybe even ask some pointed questions about the Bad Idea in question as it relates to your character, so you can be sure that your understanding of the setting isn't that different from the GM's. Ask about the obstacles in your character's way, the abilities your character has, and whether you're missing some obvious application that makes the obstacles less forbidding than they might seem at first glance. (Hey, why not? Lots of GMs actually like answering those questions and won't just blow them off.)

--
i always liked games where the gm knew what my character wanted and planned appropriately
ryan

 

[Jesus_marley]

My take on this is simple.

Giving a player a gentle (or not so gentle) nudge in the right direction is not rail roading. Sometimes players become clueless mouthbreathers when all those pretty dice are on the table, and thus, require a little guidance in which way to go.
It is only when you force a plothook on an unwilling player that it is railroading.

Under these specific circumstances, if it seems that the player merely missed the hint, I would be inclined to present a few chances to convince the player to "bite". If it seems that the player is genuinely unintersted in the hook, then let it drop and move on.

Remember, even an expert fisherman has to cast the line several times before he gets a fish. He sometimes even has to change his bait.

 

[monkeyshines]

If I were a player, this is exactly the kind of order I would try to find holes in, regardless of how lawful my character were. But that's just me. Also, I were a player and my deity sent me a vision telling me that I needed to visit a certain temple, and bad things happened when I got there, I sure as hell wouldn't shrug my shoulders and walk away. Again, that's just me, I guess.

Here's your problem right here. You are DMing for a player who plays like you, but he doesn't. He plays like him. So you need to learn to DM for a player who plays like him, and for such a player, this is a problem:

I made a literal pause in the game to give the divine champion the chance to offer to go with him. Nope. And that's when he issued his final order, which I left as vague and open to interpretation as I could.

I don't think he wants vague and open to interpretation. I think he needs "do this." There have been several good suggestions for how you could have made it obvious what you think he should have done - I don't think any of them have been railroading, more like guidance. I think the problem is nothing more than your expectations of his behavior being different from his actual behavior. Let him be himself, and play his way, and just get used to the fact that you're going to have to lead him a little more than you like when you're a player, and I think you'll all be happier for it.

 

[Sammael]

Thanks for all the replies. The campaign has since moved on, but I will try to incorporate the ideas into the two future quests he'll receive from the church.