D&D 4E Player's Strategy Guide - 4E Book

[Black Knight Irios]

Because this thread showed up, let's have some news from the WotC boards regarding this book.

[URL="http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/24886585/The_Players_Strategy_Guide_allows_you_to_acquire_implement_proficiencies_by_multiclassing."] The Player's Strategy Guide allows you to acquire implement proficiencies by multiclassing.http://community.wizards.com/go/thr...ire_implement_proficiencies_by_multiclassing.[/url]

Discuss.

 

[Azarin]

I had the pleasure of writing some of those sections and am looking forward to getting my contributor's copy to read the rest! Play Unsafe[/URL], which was recommended to me when I was looking for inspiration on "what does good player advice look like" and which I found very useful even as an experienced player. It's not game-specific and doesn't touch strategy, but does give concrete pointers towards an approach that I think makes both "winning" and "losing" in RPGs more fun.

I have been playing D&D on and off since the early 80s. I began playing again towards the end of 3.5 and then switched to 4E. I am not a power gamer by any means, but this book made me revamp my dwarven brawler fighter. And I'm not even halfway through the book! If you love D&D then this book is great to add to your collection, infact it's probably the 2nd 4E book that I will read cover to cover.
So far it has a nice mix of roleplaying and character development along with tips on building effective characters. None of the tips go into great detail, but they should open up your imagination. Nice job on this book.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

Because this thread showed up, let's have some news from the WotC boards regarding this book.

[URL="http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/24886585/The_Players_Strategy_Guide_allows_you_to_acquire_implement_proficiencies_by_multiclassing."] The Player's Strategy Guide allows you to acquire implement proficiencies by multiclassing.http://community.wizards.com/go/thr...ire_implement_proficiencies_by_multiclassing.[/url]

Discuss.

Stupid question.

Don't they already let you use the implements? I see the cleric multiclass feats specifically say "you can wield cleric implements."

Brad

 

[Samir]

Stupid question.

Don't they already let you use the implements? I see the cleric multiclass feats specifically say "you can wield cleric implements."

Brad

Wizard's FRPG FAQ has (up until now) disagreed. This is apparently a reversal of that ruling.

 

[MrMyth]

Stupid question.

Don't they already let you use the implements? I see the cleric multiclass feats specifically say "you can wield cleric implements."

Brad

Currently, the assumption has been that the cleric multiclass feats let you wield cleric implements with cleric powers. But not, say, with wizard, psion, or druid powers, if that is your base class. This has largely been supported by the wording of the rules and the FAQ.

The Player's Strategy Guide has a line indicating that acquiring an implement lets you use it with all implement attacks. Which I'll admit simplifies some weird elements of the rules, but also probably opens some things up to potential abuse, and is likely to lead to a lot of optimization madness.

 

[Jools]

If the author of the final chapter is here then please, take a bow; its the real heart of the book. Forget the other (enjoyable but not outstanding) chapters and just go straight to that one. Its like an instruction manual for playing, every player of the game should be given this. I've photocopied the chapter (legality to hell!), stapled it up real nice and will be giving it to my players today or tomorrow. We'll see what their reactions are. To answer the request of the poster above, two of my group are new to roleplaying, I'll tell you what they think of it later.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

Currently, the assumption has been that the cleric multiclass feats let you wield cleric implements with cleric powers. But not, say, with wizard, psion, or druid powers, if that is your base class. This has largely been supported by the wording of the rules and the FAQ.

The Player's Strategy Guide has a line indicating that acquiring an implement lets you use it with all implement attacks. Which I'll admit simplifies some weird elements of the rules, but also probably opens some things up to potential abuse, and is likely to lead to a lot of optimization madness.

Ah. This makes much more sense, then. Thanks!

Brad

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Currently, the assumption has been that the cleric multiclass feats let you wield cleric implements with cleric powers. But not, say, with wizard, psion, or druid powers, if that is your base class. This has largely been supported by the wording of the rules and the FAQ.

The Player's Strategy Guide has a line indicating that acquiring an implement lets you use it with all implement attacks. Which I'll admit simplifies some weird elements of the rules, but also probably opens some things up to potential abuse, and is likely to lead to a lot of optimization madness.

Yeah, and WotC CS has already said that the PSG is wrong. Frankly I don't see where a GUIDE is a rulebook at all. I would just consider anything in it as advice to players. If some of that advice is wrong, well boo to the authors on that point...

Besides, this kind of thing can't possibly be done in an FAQ. Its a really significant revamping of the rules on implements, opens up some really questionable cheese, and obsoletes a rather large swath of items, many character builds, etc. It needs to be AT LEAST an errata and really should be one of those things that gets rolled out as a rules update in the next PHB if its going to be done.

Honestly I have really mixed feelings about it anyway. The implement use rules definitely are awkwardly restrictive but at the same time it never struck me as terribly good flavor to have (for instance) characters hurling fireballs out of their holy symbol. I know hybrids can already do it, but it would be nice if there was a solution that was a bit more fluff preserving.

 

[TarionzCousin]

I know hybrids can already do it, but it would be nice if there was a solution that was a bit more fluff preserving.

You should change your status to "Fluff Preserver."

 

[DracoSuave]

I know hybrids can already do it, but it would be nice if there was a solution that was a bit more fluff preserving.

Fluff is determined by the players and the DM, not by the mechanics of how the powers themselves work.

In other words, how can you have any mechanic preserve 'the fluff' when the fluff is not determined at all by the mechanics?

What's the difference, for example, fluff-wise, between firing a bout of flame from your holy symbol (Flame Strike) and firing a bout of flame from your holy symbol (Scorching Blast)?

Well, if a forward-thinking wizard happens to be a worshiper of Ioun, of such devotion that he's even managed some manner of investiture allowing divine magic (took the multi and a power swap), whose to say he hasn't discovered the knack for channeling arcane energies through holy symbols in the same way he channels divine energies? He'd know better than any of us how it works.

Or what if he happened to be a cleric of Azuth in the realms, and as a worshipper of the god of wizards, he picks up some wizardry. He might come upon the brilliant realization that despite the differences in where the power comes from, it's all the same Weave he's pulling on. The item he uses to pull might not be what is relevant.

What 'fluff' exactly is preserved? And why does it need preservation in the first place?

I am for the new FAQ. It makes sense. And it is a printed book, so yeah, it's official. They change their minds on these things all the time. Weapon Focus works with staff wizards, which Customer Service said 'nay' to until it was cleared up by people who actually make the rules.

Customer Service is like Character Builder. Not a rules source.

As for suggesting the individuals authoring the books were somehow out of touch with what the rules are...


Andy Collins.

So no, that doesn't really apply here, now does it?