Playing monsters "smart"
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Celebrim
Legend
Cool, OK... here are some questions:
What are the following monsters strengths and weakness? What are the best tactics for the following monsters? In each case, what is the monsters ideal terrain/situation? What equipment, buffs, changes in skills or spell selection would most efficiently make up for the monsters weaknesses? In your opinion, is this monsters CR actually reflective of its potential challenge?
1) A Fiendish Dire Tiger.
2) A Scrag Clr5.
3) A Spirit Naga
4) A Barbed Devil riding a Howler mount.
5) A Giant Squid
What are the following monsters strengths and weakness? What are the best tactics for the following monsters? In each case, what is the monsters ideal terrain/situation? What equipment, buffs, changes in skills or spell selection would most efficiently make up for the monsters weaknesses? In your opinion, is this monsters CR actually reflective of its potential challenge?
1) A Fiendish Dire Tiger.
2) A Scrag Clr5.
3) A Spirit Naga
4) A Barbed Devil riding a Howler mount.
5) A Giant Squid
Land Outcast
Explorer
Scrag: Yes, remember nonassociated class levels only give +1/2 CR
Elder-Basilisk
First Post
It's all well and good for us to give you strategies for specific monsters, but it sounds like what you really need is a meta-strategy--a strategy for figuring out strategies quickly. So here's a quick attempt:
0. Remember that you will always realize that you could have done better by doing something differently. That's the way things work. Your job is not to compare the strategies you choose to an ideal strategy but rather to make sure you do a reasonable job with the time you have.
1. Categorize your monster: what does it do?
Monsters will fall into several categories:
A. Brutes--they deal damage and take it. Examples: Orc Bbn 12, Troll, most giants
B. Grappler--these monsters grapple enemies and take them out of the fight (usually while squeezing them to death). Examples: Tendriculos, Bloodthorn, assassin vine, choker, t-rex
C. Ranged Attacker--these monsters are at their best engaging foes from a distance (ex. Beholders, archers, etc)
D. Sneaks--these monsters depend upon stealth, surprise, and finesse for their effectiveness.
E. Spellcasters--these monsters' best abilities are their spells or special abilities.
2. Examine the differences between the monster and the PC class that fills that category.
For example:
Troll--category: brute. Trolls are generally capable of inflicting and taking more damage per round than a barbarian but generally have the same strengths and weaknesses.
Assassin Vine--category: grappler. Assassin vines are similar to grappling monks except their immunity to crits and the difficulty of approaching one offset the main weaknesses of a grappling PC.
By stage two, you should have a rough idea of what to do with the monster. Play it like a PC class with the modifications for its unique strengths and weaknesses.
3. Look at its most salient ability. This is easier for simple monsters like a troll than for complex creatures like a pit fiend or an astral deva, but a lot of creatures have one thing they do really well. Trolls rend. Griffons (and lions) pounce. Look for opportunities to do that one thing and look for tactics that synergize with it rather than negate it. For instance, a troll should not get much use out of spring attack because it's incompatible with it's schtick: rend. OTOH, a troll gets a lot of milage out of rage because it makes rending much more likely.
3.5 Look for things that synergize with its most salient ability. For the griffon, for instance, it can dive, gaining double damage on all claw attacks, AND it can pounce, making all or its attacks after a charge. So, if it does a diving pounce, it gets four claw attacks for double damage (rakes are described as claws).
In the case of the noble salamander, it can grapple, it is immune to fire, and it can cast wall of fire. One thing it could do is surround itself with a wall of fire (hot side facing IN) and thus provide itself with concealment as well as forcing any enemies in melee with it to take damage from the wall of fire. If it has someone grappled, it could surround only itself with the wall of fire (using a spell-like ability in a grapple is possible with a DC 20+effective level concentration check), so that it could not be sneak-attacked and would have full concealment against all other attacks and meanwhile add wall of fire damage to the constrict damage against the unlucky foe it grappled.
4. After you've analyzed the monster, analyze the situation. There is a good amount of generic advice that applies to most monsters in a given situations.
a. If you're alone, minimize the number of foes who can hurt you.
a1. If your enemies are strong with ranged attacks, cut off line of sight or keep cover between you and them. (Battlefield control abilities like wall of fire are very useful for this kind of thing). Closing with ranged attackers and spellcasters is often a good tactic that forces them to eschew attacking to retreat.
a2. If your enemies are strong with melee attacks, keep cover between you and your foes so that they can't charge. Do your best to keep your distance as well. Use your five foot steps to avoid flanks and to force foes to provoke AoOs in order to close with you.
b. If you outnumber the PCs use your advantage in numbers against them. Don't all bunch up next to the warrior with great cleave. Instead, move to threaten the archer and the wizard. Above all, try to have everyone do something. If they can't hit a target's AC, use a net, alchemist's fire, or grapple. If all else fails, have bad guys aid other to help a bad guy who actually has a decent attack.
0. Remember that you will always realize that you could have done better by doing something differently. That's the way things work. Your job is not to compare the strategies you choose to an ideal strategy but rather to make sure you do a reasonable job with the time you have.
1. Categorize your monster: what does it do?
Monsters will fall into several categories:
A. Brutes--they deal damage and take it. Examples: Orc Bbn 12, Troll, most giants
B. Grappler--these monsters grapple enemies and take them out of the fight (usually while squeezing them to death). Examples: Tendriculos, Bloodthorn, assassin vine, choker, t-rex
C. Ranged Attacker--these monsters are at their best engaging foes from a distance (ex. Beholders, archers, etc)
D. Sneaks--these monsters depend upon stealth, surprise, and finesse for their effectiveness.
E. Spellcasters--these monsters' best abilities are their spells or special abilities.
2. Examine the differences between the monster and the PC class that fills that category.
For example:
Troll--category: brute. Trolls are generally capable of inflicting and taking more damage per round than a barbarian but generally have the same strengths and weaknesses.
Assassin Vine--category: grappler. Assassin vines are similar to grappling monks except their immunity to crits and the difficulty of approaching one offset the main weaknesses of a grappling PC.
By stage two, you should have a rough idea of what to do with the monster. Play it like a PC class with the modifications for its unique strengths and weaknesses.
3. Look at its most salient ability. This is easier for simple monsters like a troll than for complex creatures like a pit fiend or an astral deva, but a lot of creatures have one thing they do really well. Trolls rend. Griffons (and lions) pounce. Look for opportunities to do that one thing and look for tactics that synergize with it rather than negate it. For instance, a troll should not get much use out of spring attack because it's incompatible with it's schtick: rend. OTOH, a troll gets a lot of milage out of rage because it makes rending much more likely.
3.5 Look for things that synergize with its most salient ability. For the griffon, for instance, it can dive, gaining double damage on all claw attacks, AND it can pounce, making all or its attacks after a charge. So, if it does a diving pounce, it gets four claw attacks for double damage (rakes are described as claws).
In the case of the noble salamander, it can grapple, it is immune to fire, and it can cast wall of fire. One thing it could do is surround itself with a wall of fire (hot side facing IN) and thus provide itself with concealment as well as forcing any enemies in melee with it to take damage from the wall of fire. If it has someone grappled, it could surround only itself with the wall of fire (using a spell-like ability in a grapple is possible with a DC 20+effective level concentration check), so that it could not be sneak-attacked and would have full concealment against all other attacks and meanwhile add wall of fire damage to the constrict damage against the unlucky foe it grappled.
4. After you've analyzed the monster, analyze the situation. There is a good amount of generic advice that applies to most monsters in a given situations.
a. If you're alone, minimize the number of foes who can hurt you.
a1. If your enemies are strong with ranged attacks, cut off line of sight or keep cover between you and them. (Battlefield control abilities like wall of fire are very useful for this kind of thing). Closing with ranged attackers and spellcasters is often a good tactic that forces them to eschew attacking to retreat.
a2. If your enemies are strong with melee attacks, keep cover between you and your foes so that they can't charge. Do your best to keep your distance as well. Use your five foot steps to avoid flanks and to force foes to provoke AoOs in order to close with you.
b. If you outnumber the PCs use your advantage in numbers against them. Don't all bunch up next to the warrior with great cleave. Instead, move to threaten the archer and the wizard. Above all, try to have everyone do something. If they can't hit a target's AC, use a net, alchemist's fire, or grapple. If all else fails, have bad guys aid other to help a bad guy who actually has a decent attack.
ajanders
Explorer
Strengths...The pounce.Celebrim said:
Sweet merciless gods, the pounce as a night attack is vicious death.
Step 1: Tiger sneaks up on encamped PC's. Tiger has a +11 move silently and a +7 Hide score...more if you factor in undergrowth bonuses and darkness. Tiger only needs to get within 100 feet of the camp to make the charge.
Step 2: Tiger charge/pounces on any sleeping PC it wants: wizards and clerics die easiest, there's more meat on paladins. The tiger is probably smart enough not to pounce on anything in metal armor.
The pounce does, on the average, 55 points of damage, killing most 10th level wizards instantly: this will also finish off 10th level thieves and bards. If the characters still have hit points left, they can take their massive damage saves.
If the tiger gets lucky and does maximum damage, it hands out a whopping 72 points of damage in the round, probably killing the average monk, ranger, cleric, or druid as well as the wizards, sorcs, thieves, and bards. And again, if you have hit points left, take your massive damage save.
Being fiendish is even worse: combining the Smite Good attack with the pounce adds another 16 points of damage, virtually guaranteeing a character will need to make a massive damage save and now slaying the paladins and fighters of the party on the initial pounce.
Step 3: If the victim is dead or unconscious, the tiger picks the victim up in its mouth and runs off to devour it privately. With a strength of 27, a dire tiger can walk off with a weight of 200 pounds and never notice, fleeing the camp at 200 feet a round.
An hour later, the tiger is no longer hungry and the victim will need a true resurrection. Kiss goodby to any magical items the victim had as well: a meditative dire tiger can probably gnaw metals up very neatly as a form of relaxation.
Using this technique makes a tiger an effective ECL of 10 easily, and maybe 12. The limiting factor is the stealth of the tiger: if your guard detects it coming in and rouses the party, you have a good chance of causing it to go seek easier prey.
Like the party mounts or henchmen.
And now you know why Kipling gets so excited about tiger hunting.
(Being fiendish doesn't count much: the smite is icing on the massive damage death cake and the average dire tiger doesn't make fine moral judgements or detect good, so it might be wasted anyway.)
The tiger's biggest weakness is a relatively low armor class: being fiendish and getting DR and energy resistance is a big compensation for this. Nevertheless, a dire tiger wants to avoid getting sneak attacked and full attacked.
A hypothetical dire tiger trainer could compensate for this with mage armor or barkskin, but they're far better off casting spells of concealment and stealth on brother Stripes: if he approaches undetected, he won't hang around long enough to recieve attacks.
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buzz
Adventurer
I figure that, like FFG's Monster's Handbook, you could have a chapter on each creature type. The book would talk generalities about each type, and then delve into specific tactics for a couple of archetypical creatures per chapter. That, or just do more than one book.Nail said:
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