Playing monsters "smart"

[tec-9-7]

The tiger is probably smart enough not to pounce on anything in metal armor.

I COMPLETELY DISAGREE with this! The tiger will pounce of the first 'prey' creature it comes across - maybe it's the Wizard, maybe it's the Rogue, or maybe it's the Fighter. I would immediately call BS on the DM if animals suddenly all started attacking only unarmored/soft armored party members.

 

[Arbiter of Wyrms]

I COMPLETELY DISAGREE with this! The tiger will pounce of the first 'prey' creature it comes across - maybe it's the Wizard, maybe it's the Rogue, or maybe it's the Fighter. I would immediately call BS on the DM if animals suddenly all started attacking only unarmored/soft armored party members.

Tigers (and other big cats) hunt soft prey in the wild. They go for the sickly, injured, abandoned, stragglers; not for the herd-alpha water buffalo that turn to charge anything they can't mate with, not for charging rhinos, and not for venemous snakes. Most big cats can go a long time without food. they've evolved to, because their hunts are not always successful, and sometimes, they think better of attacking potential prey and excercise discretion. I doubt that I could beat a Northern Californian mountain lion in a fair fight, but if I encounter one, I'm not going to run. I'm going to take 20 on my intimidate check and chase the thing off. Most times, big cats would rather slink off unhurt and hungry than attack prey they're unsure of.

My biggest porblems with the above description of the fiendish dire tiger's camp assault was that it was attacking while the PCs were together around a camp fire (not too much of a stretch, and none at all if it's hungry enough) and, more significantly, that the thing would come back to give the PCs a chance at revenge.

No, I say the tiger pounces into camp just as described, siezing on the scout or the character it's seen being protected in the middle of the group, makes a coup-de-grace, and runs off with its kill before the other PCs can act. Two rounds, one monster, one PC death. And that's all she wrote about that tiger.

 

[buzz]

Monsters should never be played like its the DM's intelligence controlling them. They should be played as smart as their OWN intelligence. Anything else, to me, is metagaming, and takes away not only from my enjoyment, but also makes my feats like combat reflexes worse than useless, as even the stupidest creature never gives one up.

Monsters should be played as if they know how to use the abilities they posess. I'm not looking for ways to hose my players; I'm looking for advice on how to analyze a stat block and quickly determine how the creature in question would use their innate abilities. E.g., a wolf doesn't needs to be awakened just to know that using its Improved Trip is a good idea.

And in my original example, the salamander, it's just as intelligent as any PC. It was born with a massive tail and spell-like abilities; it should act like it knows how to use them.

 

[buzz]

I wouldn't worry too much about tactics. Think about the story foremost.

I tend to, but my players enjoy tactical challenges, and tactics is sort of ingrained into D&D's combat system.

Maybe "smart" wasn't the right word. How to play monsters "well" might have been better.

 

[rowport]

Great Stuff Celebrim!

I would strongly urge you to turn these into articles. Or a column. Heck, if you can crank 'em out, get them published. I would pay good money for a book showing how to powergame monsters.

And I would read it all the way through. Lessons learned from the Dire Tiger wouldn't have to be repeated for swooping dragons; a note saying (see Dire Tiger) would be enough.

Again, Bravo!

I will echo this post: your ideas are great, Celebrim!

Of course, as one of the players in Buzz's game, I *curse you*! Argh!

 

[Saeviomagy]

They go for the sickly, injured, abandoned, stragglers...

...No, I say the tiger pounces into camp just as described, siezing on the scout or the character it's seen being protected in the middle of the group, makes a coup-de-grace, and runs off with its kill before the other PCs can act. Two rounds, one monster, one PC death. And that's all she wrote about that tiger.

Yeah, that makes perfect sense. Because the guy in the middle of the group is the abandoned straggler.

Oh, and for the record, since it's a surprise round, the tiger has to do it's thing from 50ft - it only gets a partial charge, not a full one.


As a final note - if the salamander was summoned, then it cannot in turn use it's summoning abilities.

Wall of fire can't be used as a direct attack, and most PC's won't take full damage from it. But it DOES force the PC's to get up-close and personal with a creature that has a 20' reach.

Another good idea is to slap down the wall so it seperates the party - fighting HALF the party is far more effective than fighting all or none of the party.

 

[Arbiter of Wyrms]

Yeah, that makes perfect sense. Because the guy in the middle of the group is the abandoned straggler.

Fair enough, smart alec. I meant that the guy who spends all of his time in the middle of the party is apt to be regarded as immature by a large predator, and thus, not able to defend itself, not that stragglers stay in the middle of the group.

Oh, and for the record, since it's a surprise round, the tiger has to do it's thing from 50ft - it only gets a partial charge, not a full one.

Right. Good point.

As a final note - if the salamander was summoned, then it cannot in turn use it's summoning abilities.

I may not be the only one who missed that the salamander was summoned. Good catch, Saeviomagy, on what is clearly the biggest limitation on summoned creatures next to Dispel Magic.

Wall of fire can't be used as a direct attack, and most PC's won't take full damage from it. But it DOES force the PC's to get up-close and personal with a creature that has a 20' reach.

Why can WoF not be used as a direct attack? If it's called into being in an area where the heat will affect the party, that sounds like an attack to me. Also, I'm curious as to why you say that most PCs wont be affected by it. Are most of your PCs resistant to fire damage, or do they generally have SR? While I might regard as hyperbolous the assertion that WoF FORCES the PCs to get close to the salamander, I'll concede that it's pretty effective in that regard and that this is the best use of the spell short of dividing the party.

Another good idea is to slap down the wall so it seperates the party - fighting HALF the party is far more effective than fighting all or none of the party.

Yeah, exactly.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Fair enough, smart alec. I meant that the guy who spends all of his time in the middle of the party is apt to be regarded as immature by a large predator, and thus, not able to defend itself, not that stragglers stay in the middle of the group.

As opposed to, say, it being far from the herd, smaller than other members, moving significantly slower etc etc. I'd say that having unintelligent animals preferentially jump the arcanist is being more than a little unfair.

I may not be the only one who missed that the salamander was summoned. Good catch, Saeviomagy, on what is clearly the biggest limitation on summoned creatures next to Dispel Magic.

It's also worth bearing in mind the protection from alignment series of spells, which can seriously cripple any summoners tactics.

Why can WoF not be used as a direct attack? If it's called into being in an area where the heat will affect the party, that sounds like an attack to me. Also, I'm curious as to why you say that most PCs wont be affected by it. Are most of your PCs resistant to fire damage, or do they generally have SR? While I might regard as hyperbolous the assertion that WoF FORCES the PCs to get close to the salamander, I'll concede that it's pretty effective in that regard and that this is the best use of the spell short of dividing the party.

I meant that:
The 2d4 or 1d4 caused by proximity to the wall for a single round is largely irrelevant at the levels where a noble salamander will be encountered. I therefore dismiss it as an effective damage-dealing tactic. PC's are unlikely to remain near the wall voluntarily unless there is some pressing objective close to it. You cannot place the wall such that it's 2d6+level will hit anyone off the bat. Once placed, MOST PCs will have a means of passing the wall without harm, be that jumping over it, flying, teleporting, using resist fire etc etc.

The wall provides total concealment. Which means that in order to attack the salamander, the PC's must pass the wall. If the wall is close to the salamander, this means that the PC's are now likely to be within melee range. It's the equivalent of shrinking the room size.

Note that all of this assumes that a dispel magic is unsuccessful (since the salamander has a caster level of 15, this is pretty likely) and that the party don't have significant cold based damage dealing magics prepared (which, in the case of a spontaeneous summoned salamander, and given the general lameness of PHb ice-based damage spells also seems likely).

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

I may not be the only one who missed that the salamander was summoned. Good catch, Saeviomagy, on what is clearly the biggest limitation on summoned creatures next to Dispel Magic.

Next to dispel magic and magic circle vs. evil, that is....

Why can WoF not be used as a direct attack? If it's called into being in an area where the heat will affect the party, that sounds like an attack to me. Also, I'm curious as to why you say that most PCs wont be affected by it. Are most of your PCs resistant to fire damage, or do they generally have SR? While I might regard as hyperbolous the assertion that WoF FORCES the PCs to get close to the salamander, I'll concede that it's pretty effective in that regard and that this is the best use of the spell short of dividing the party.

Most PCs won't take full damage because WoF gives a reflex save if you drop it through a party member's square. (There's no save for being near the hot wall or for jumping through, but there's a save if you drop it right on someone). If you don't drop it through a square, you're doing a few d4s of damage at best.

As for forcing the PCs to close with the salamander, since WoF is opaque, it sets an outer limit to where the PCs can engage the salamander. If you can't see, your attacks are not likely to be very effective.

 

[ZuulMoG]

In the list of abilities, look for an entry like "Int #" or "Int##". If it is the second, take a deep breath, look over the monster's abilities, and play it like it was your PC. If it's the former, roll its first attack, resolve it, rinse and repeat.