D&D (2024) Playtest Packet 6: Monk reactions?

[Jefe Bergenstein]

base damage of unarmed is 1, feature gives it d6 at start, also all light simple weapons become d6 too.
then you can use mastery for handaxe and dagger. you have 3 attacks with d6 damage, two of those get dex bonus, and maybe attack with unarmed with advantage.

not bad for 1st level.

The feature is saving the few gold from buying a d6 weapon like everyone else already has. They only get 2 attacks without spending Di for flurry because dual wielding is a bonus action, same as the extra martial arts attack. Anyone can dual wield, you don't get your dex mod to your offhand normally. So their features are a specialized form of dual wielding style, "has armor", weapon mastery. Still 1 feature behind a regular dual wielding fighter in appropriate gear, on top of a d8 HD.

Like there are other issues with the monk, but taking out the "doesn't need equipment" power budget tax and treating it as a ribbon on par with thieve's cant would be a good place to start. The default is player's have their gear, so not needing gear to reach baseline isn't worth very much.

 

[Horwath]

The feature is saving the few gold from buying a d6 weapon like everyone else already has. They only get 2 attacks without spending Di for flurry because dual wielding is a bonus action, same as the extra martial arts attack. Anyone can dual wield, you don't get your dex mod to your offhand normally. So their features are a specialized form of dual wielding style, "has armor", weapon mastery. Still 1 feature behind a regular dual wielding fighter in appropriate gear, on top of a d8 HD.

Like there are other issues with the monk, but taking out the "doesn't need equipment" power budget tax and treating it as a ribbon on par with thieve's cant would be a good place to start. The default is player's have their gear, so not needing gear to reach baseline isn't worth very much.

if you take mastery with light weapon that has Nick mastery, you do not need that bonus action. you can then spend it on unarmed strike.
Second mastery is for a light weapon with Vex so if you hit, next attack is with advantage. Use unarmed as it gets ability bonus.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

if you take mastery with light weapon that has Nick mastery, you do not need that bonus action. you can then spend it on unarmed strike.
Second mastery is for a light weapon with Vex so if you hit, next attack is with advantage. Use unarmed as it gets ability bonus.

Good point, I had missed that! Kind of locks them into one thing but its something.

 

[ZetaShift]

Very disappointed to say the least

 

[Stalker0]

My overall impression: A small step forward, but nothing really fundamental here.

1) The Monk is still MAD as hell.
2) The monk's defense is still very expensive and hard to use, always requiring you to sacrifice offense for defense.
3) Stunning spam is gone, and nothing has really replaced it. You honestly could argue this monk is EVEN WEAKER than the OG, because you have lost that niche.
4) The damage boost at low levels will help a bit. It still means quarterstaffs are the default monk weapon, but at least their bonus attack gets a boost.
5) The heightened metabolism is an interesting ability, but also a bit drastic. We go from so little ki to just giving them a whole slew of ki in 1 minute. That's a huge change, and probably does help the high level monk quite a bit. Sadly many players will never get to 7th to see the change.
6) I cannot believe Monks got weapon mastery....but no mastery for unarmed strike. I mean they are basically saying "yes you can make unarmed strikes....but don't"
7) I HATE the idea that their high level survival mechanic requires so much Ki. Once again this is the problem, stop giving the monk fun new toys that just suck away their ki. The last thing you want is a paranoid player who is deathly afraid to enjoy their ki because they have to save 3 ki "just in case".

 

[Vael]

I'm lukewarm right now. As I said, I thought we'd get a hit die increase, I still don't think their defenses are so good that they don't deserve frontline HP. I'll want to see some of the math, maybe wait for Treantmonk's analysis. Because Weapon Mastery is more potent than I had originally thought, so how good is it in the hands of a Monk? A first level monk can make 3 strikes per turn ... two with a pair of daggers or light hammers (nick property), plus a bonus action unarmed strike. Without expending any resources. Once you hit 5th level, adding an extra attack and a flurry of blows means 5 attacks if you expend discipline, 4 normally.

 

[bedir than]

I'm lukewarm right now. As I said, I thought we'd get a hit die increase, I still don't think their defenses are so good that they don't deserve frontline HP. I'll want to see some of the math, maybe wait for Treantmonk's analysis. Because Weapon Mastery is more potent than I had originally thought, so how good is it in the hands of a Monk? A first level monk can make 3 strikes per turn ... two with a pair of daggers or light hammers (nick property), plus a bonus action unarmed strike. Without expending any resources. Once you hit 5th level, adding an extra attack and a flurry of blows means 5 attacks if you expend discipline, 4 normally.

Why would you want frontline HP in a character that should never, ever stay on the frontline?

 

[Vael]

Why would you want frontline HP in a character that should never, ever stay on the frontline?

They are a melee combatant, therefore, they're going to be in melee. Sure, their skirmishing abilities allow them to get out of it, but the unarmed combatant still often trades blows, I'd just give them the HP to do it.

 

[Asisreo]

Some things that some people might have missed while skimming monk:

They do not use their martial arts die with simple weapons. They can only use the increased die size for their unarmed strikes. It kinda forces the monk to rely solely on their fists, which I'm not a big fan of. I liked how the monk could turn an innocuous +2 dagger into the equivalent of a light, one-handed, throwable (but short) polearm.

Deflect missile's redirect damage is now based on a saving throw...blegh. Don't like that, I'll tell you.

Stunning Strike lasts until the start of your turn now, which means you yourself don't benefit from the advantage from stun. They felt the need to really bury this feature, huh?


Elemental Attunement makes the monk have a reach of 15, not 10. So they have the longest distance melee attack in the game and lets them kite most enemies with ease. Huge upgrade to the fire snakes feature since now it lasts for a full 10 minutes. Also, it can force up to 40ft of push or pull at no cost, letting you position others in the battlefield much better.

Monks being squishy is a bit of a meme, but the hand's Wholeness of Body has increased their survivability by a significant amount.

If you check the subclasses, the monk really begins to have the ability to more reliably avoid damage and protect themselves in their own way. The shadow monk will cover themselves in a darkness they can see through, meaning all incoming attacks are at disadvantage. The elementalist's reach lets them stay far away from the enemy while attacking, making kiting a breeze. And the Open Hand has three techniques that all add to their ability to keep the enemy from catching up to them or hitting them while they retreat.

While the actual stats themselves haven't changed for survivability, I do think the effective survivability of the monk has made a significant increase.

 

[Parmandur]

Way of Mercy: still by far the best monk sub-class.

I feel like WotC think that monk is way better than the player base does.

I feel the Monk is better than a lot of online discourse gives it credit for.