Please comment on these PC races

[pensiv]

Here are four PC races that I'm working on. They are meant to have LA+0 and be "balanced" with the PHB races and each other. Are they? If not, what do I need to do to balance them with core PC races? What do I need to do to balance them with each other?


RACE #1

• +2 Strength, -2 Dexterity.
• Medium: As Medium creatures, they have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
• base land speed is 30 feet.
• 1 extra feat at 1st level.
• Weapon Familiarity: They may treat bolas and bastard swords as martial weapons, rather than exotic ones.
• +2 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks.
• Favored Class: Barbarian.

RACE #2

• +2 Constitution, -2 Intelligence.
• Medium: As Medium creatures, they have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
• base land speed is 30 feet.
• 1 extra feat at 1st level.
• Low-Light Vision
• +2 racial bonus on Craft, Forgery, and Spellcraft checks.
• Favored Class: Sorceror.

RACE #3

• +2 Constitution, -2 Intelligence.
• Medium: As Medium creatures, they have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
• base land speed is 30 feet.
• Run: When running, they move five times their normal speed (if wearing medium, light, or no armor and carrying no more than a medium load) or four times their speed (if wearing heavy armor or carrying a heavy load). If they make a jump after a running start (see the Jump skill description), they gain a +4 bonus on their Jump check. While running, they retain their Dexterity bonus to AC.
• Low-Light Vision
• +2 racial bonus on Intimidate checks.
• +2 racial bonus on Craft, Forgery, and Spellcraft checks.
• Favored Class: Sorceror.

RACE #4

• Medium: As Medium creatures, they have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
• base land speed is 30 feet.
• Run: When running, they move five times their normal speed (if wearing medium, light, or no armor and carrying no more than a medium load) or four times their speed (if wearing heavy armor or carrying a heavy load). If they make a jump after a running start (see the Jump skill description), they gain a +4 bonus on their Jump check. While running, they retain their Dexterity bonus to AC.
• 4 extra skill points at 1st level and 1 extra skill point at each additional level.
• +2 racial bonus on Intimidate checks.
• Favored Class: Any.

PHB HUMANS(I just put them here for easy reference)

• Medium: As Medium creatures, they have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
• base land speed is 30 feet.
• 1 extra feat at 1st level.
• 4 extra skill points at 1st level and 1 extra skill point at each additional level.
• Favored Class: Any.

 

[Neo]

According to Savage Species information on what qualifies for level adjustment and wjat doesnt, it states that if a race recieves three or more racial bonuses to skills that that constitutes as being worthy of a +1 LA.

However The above statement apparently didn't apply for the Core Races... like Halfling for example.

So by SS race 2 and 3 would both be +1 LA, but when you consider the above rule isn't apparently as "always applicable" as it seems, then I'd say all three races were reasonable as they are as +0 LA.

 

[pensiv]

Thank you Neo. I've since added a RACE #4 since you posted. Have any input in regards to that one?

 

[Neo]

Race 4 I dont think will be a problem either.

They may get the run benefit, and a +2 bonus to Intimidate, but they don't get the usual human bonus feat.

Other significant demihuman type abilities like say Stonecunning for example aren't consider level adjusting, so I doubt Run would qualify as level adjusting, the only movement which seems to be level adjusting worthy is Flight.

 

[Darklone]

I have a problem with race No. 1.

They are essentially humans without skillbonus... but the strength +2 and dex -2 is better (especially with point buy) than the humans missing racial attribute modifiers. Then they get some weapon proficiencies and racial skill bonuses...

Edit: More comments later.

 

[Neo]

I have a problem with race No. 1.

They are essentially humans without skillbonus... but the strength +2 and dex -2 is better (especially with point buy) than the humans missing racial attribute modifiers. Then they get some weapon proficiencies and racial skill bonuses...

Edit: More comments later.

The limited proficiences angle for 2 specific weapons is no big deal... however I've just had a quick flick through the DMG to the Ability Score Equivelancies table on page 173. This table basically lists attributre which if they recieve a bonus can be balanced by penalties to other statistics and Strength it seems is a special case.

A bonus to Strength can only be equaled out by a penalty to
Dex OR Con OR Int AND a penalty to Cha
OR Int AND Wis
OR Wis ANd Cha

Unbalanced stat equivelancies incur a Level Adjustment.. so as Race 1 stands it would be a +1 LA race but only because of the Stat modifiers.

If it had modifiers as any of the below it would still be +0 LA
+2 Str, -2 Dex, -2 Cha
+2 Str, -2 Con, -2 Cha
+2 Str, -2 Int, -2 Cha
+2 Str, -2 Int, -2 Wis
+2 Str, -2 Wis, -2 Cha

 

[pensiv]

Reading the DMG (as you quoted it), it states that a plus to Strength is balanced by an equivalent minus to Dexterity

it can be read more easily as follows: (Dex) OR (Con) OR (Int and Cha) OR (Int and Wis) OR (Wis and Cha)

Dexterity and Strength are considered equally important stats, their comparisons on the table are equal. However, even though a bonus to STR is balanced by a penalty to CON it is not the same in the inverse.

EDIT: re-read, clarified, exampled.

 

[Neo]

Reading the DMG (as you quoted it), it states that a plus to Strength is balanced by an equivalent minus to Dexterity

it can be read more easily as follows: (Dex) OR (Con) OR (Int and Cha) OR (Int and Wis) OR (Wis and Cha)

Dexterity and Strength are considered equally important stats, their comparisons on the table are equal. However, even though a bonus to STR is balanced by a penalty to CON it is not the same in the inverse.

EDIT: re-read, clarified, exampled.

Str as a bonus is not equivelant to a minus to Dex alone, You'll note in both cases a Bonus to Strength incurs a pently to two stats and a bonus to Dex incurs a penalty to two stats, but that doesnt mean a bonus to one is an equal penalty to the other.

The table shows you if you put a bonus in Strength, you would incur a penalty to (Dex) OR (Con) OR (Int and Cha) OR (Int and Wis) OR (Wis and Cha) as we both quoted.

Of course you'll note under the table it also tells you that if you want to ignore the tabel and just go with the theme that its okay too So I guess in the end it comes down to what you want and feel on the subject.

 

[Sigurd]

What about the cultural element

I imagine you just want to deal with one step at a time but I cant help but thinking too much is missing to comment on. All of the races seem to be juggled stats that sort of balance, but what about their race history and outlook???

For example it would make a huge difference to me for example if the very fast race had a history of raiding and enslaving\eating smaller humanoids. I imagine a hopped up creature with a net & trident or javelin.

Hobbits and fey creatures might hate the race. If they were great goblin killers maybe other races would admire them.

Are they Mamals, Reptiles, Avians? Do they sleep? How long do they live? Do they adventure? etc...

None of the races are so extreme that other game elements couldn't balance them. My biggest concern is the lack of commitment to game culture. 'Favoured class: any' for five races in a row just seems wrong.

Sigurd

my 02

 

[evolved]

one dex and str are equivalent stats so thats good

Race one is a very weak +1 LA effectively 2 feats (bonus and weapon familiarities) and +3 skill bonuses i know they halfling gets more but its balanced by being small, and elves get even more but they are unbalanced and everyone knows it I'd advise dropping either bola or bastard swors familiarty (I'd advise the bastard sword beacause one level in the big weapon classes: Fighter, Ranger, Barbarian, Paladin, or Psychic Warrior, and the sword can still be used two handed with the bolas for ranged) also drop one skill bonus, I'd also advise if your going to give them a dex penalty that you explain why they train with a ranged weapon like the bola, or give them access to the axethrower feat from Players Guide to faurune

Race 2

Big balance issue here is craft is potencialy dozens of seperate skills, might be a good idea to limit how many crafts this bonus can apply to, why is forgery on the list it doesn't seem to work with the others, Finally why is a race with an int penalty getting bonuses to all int skills?


Race 3

Ok first off all the same problems as with number 2
next how does this run ability work with the run feat
and why does race 3 look like race number 2
definatly drop some skill bonus here

Race 4

Balance is okay but its rather bland it looks like the other half of race 3

Overall

some text about there roll in the world would help

try to differ the abilities more

favored classes really give a handle on a races motivations so those would be helpful