Please critique my cultural caste (racial) traits

[gweinel]

In my homebrew world i don't have different races (elves, dwarves, etc), but different cultures which work exactly as races.

One of these cultures is Chattigar, which is very strictly caste based.

The higher caste, Aatma, is related with the spiritual guiding of Chattigar and most of its member are priests, wizards, sorcerers and warlocks. These have no class restriction.

The second in hierarchy is the Hathiyaars who are the administrative and military leaders of the people. These follow a more martial path and are not permitted to become priests priests, wizards, sorcerers and warlocks (although they can follow other spellcasting classes like bards (especially valor), druids and paladins).

The third caste are Sevaks and consist the vast majority of the Chattigar society. They are all the workers, farmers, soldiers, artisans, etc. Both males and females get a rigorously military training. They have the same class restriction as the Hathiyaars.

The forth and last caste are the Ajaati, the outcasts. They don't have privileges and they are living at the outskirts of society. Many can't stand this harsh life and take the road living like nomads roaming the world (like Vistani). These have no class restriction, but they regarded worse than animals.

What I want of you is to critique the power level of these traits. Are these too strong? Too weak? Too situational? Too ...anything that you does't like?

Anyway, here is the cultural traits of Chattigar people.

Variant Chattigar Trait: Choose your caste:


Aatma

Ability Score Increase: Your Charisma, Dexterity and Wisdom score increases by 1

Nayak skill: You gain proficiency in Religion or Arcana skill

Masters of Creation, Masters of Destruction, Masters of Time: Your non cantrip divine healing spells heal one die more hit points, your non cantrip arcane damaging spells deal one die more damage and all your spells and the casting time of your rituals is 5 minutes instead of 10.

Hathiyaar nayak

Ability Score Increase: Your Charisma score increases by 2 and Dexterity score is increases by 1

Nayak skill: You gain proficiency in Persuasion skill

No fear under Hathiyaar rule: You have been raised as a leader and your skills in guiding the people in battle are unquestionable. Your mere presence inspires your comrades and your orders and shouts can rouse your friends even when their mind is tired or affected by spells.
As a bonus action on your turn you can choose and rouse an ally within 60’ who can hear you. As a reaction he can reroll a failed mind affecting saving throw.
Alternatively, as a bonus action you can choose and inspire an ally within 60’ who can hear you to overcome exhaustion. The next saving throw that would cause exhaustion within 10 minutes is made with advantage.
Once you use this ability, you can’t use it again unless you finish a short rest.

Army Tactics: When you successfully hit an opponent he can’t use his or her reaction to make attack rolls until the end of turn.

Hathiyaar Military Training: You have proficiency with light armor, medium armor, chakram (1d6 slashing, light, thrown (range 30/120), keen – reroll “1” on damage roll) and urumi (1d6 slashing, finesse, reach).

Chattigar Caste System: Hathiyaars are not permitted to follow a priestly or specific arcane paths. For that reason they cannot be clerics, sorcerers, warlocks and wizards. If someone takes levels from these classes and is exposed then she either loses her social status and demoted to Ajaati caste, or she is punished with the death penalty.

Sevak nayak

Ability Score Increase: Your Dexterity scores are increase by 1. Choose and increase one ability score by 2 or two ability scores by 1.

Nayak skill: You gain proficiency in one skill of your choice.

Sevak training:
o You have bonus proficiency an artisan tool and land vehicles (elephants, camel, carts, etc).
o You have proficiency with light armor and short sword, short bow and chakram (1d6 slashing, light, thrown (range 30/120), keen – reroll “1” on dmg roll).
o If you are within 5’ with an ally, you can assist him as bonus action in order to disengage him from an opponent, moving him 5’ in an unoccupied space.

Chattigar Caste System: Sevaks are not permitted to follow a priestly or specific arcane paths. For that reason they cannot be clerics, sorcerers, warlocks and wizards. If someone takes levels from these classes and is exposed then she either loses her social status and demoted to Ajaati caste, or she is punished with the death penalty.


Ajaati nayak

Ability Score Increase: Three abilities scores increase by 1, or one ability score increases by 2 and another ability score increases by 1.

Nayak skill: You gain proficiency in one skill or tool of your choice.

Manush adaptability: You gain one feat of your choice.

Ajaati’s no-man’s land: The fame of your caste precedes you. As Ajaati the other Chattigar despise you, and even other cultures who have heard about Manush people eye you with suspicion. You have disadvantage to your Charisma checks against other people of your culture. Moreover, you have – 2 at your Charisma checks with people of other cultures who know about Manush and recognize you as one.

Chattigar Caste System: Ajaati are not permitted to follow a priestly or specific arcane paths. For that reason they cannot be clerics, sorcerers, warlocks and wizards. However these Ajaati that choose to roam the continent, have not such restrictions.

 

[Capn Charlie]

Aatma Caste: Spell duration increase text "Twice your level" is meaningless. Twice your level what? Additionally, most spells with duration last one minute, and there is not a lot of difference between one and two minutes. A better option might be to say that "when casting a spell whose duration is extended by being cast with a higher level spell slot, treat that spell as if it was cast with a spell slot one level higher than it actually was for the effects of its duration."

Hathiyaar Caste: is diplomacy a skill? Persuasion might be the better choice. Additionally, the Inspiration ability is a bit wonky. As a once per rest ability, you could streamline it a lot by just letting the ability pass out a single d6 inspiration die that can be spent to enhance saving throws. This allows it to 'stack' with other sources of advantage, while remaining meaningful.

Sevak Caste: These certanly are a charismatic people. With everyone receiving charisma bonuses, or so it seems, this seems like less of a bonus and more of a baseline, making it seem less special. There seems to be no worker or peasant caste with a con or str bonus. Sevaks are good at getting allies out of combat, implying they are on the front lines and are for some reason given proficiency with light armor and bows. Skirmishers that disengage allies from danger? It seems odd.

Ajaati Caste: What? I really can't make out much of what is going on in the description. They are outcast wanderers that should get +2 to two ability scores, but don't for some reason... this needs a lot of clarification. That being said, this caste seems mechanically superior to the other options, perhaps even the ridiculously powerful spellcaster one.

 

[gweinel]

This is exactly the critique I wanted and really appreciate it!

It seems, i had to clarify what i had as guide in order to get these bonuses. I had as an example the new races from Volo's guide and all the work that is presented in this thread: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...mp-D-5e-race-design-and-over-40-example-races . Do you think these cultures are more powerful than the Yuan it or Lizard Men?

As a general rule all races have 12 points to spend to their abilities. A "+1" in ability score costs 2 points. A skill also costs 2 points. A feat at 1st lvl costs 6 points. For the abilities that give I have as a measure the power of a feat. Since i give three "+1" to the ability scores and a skill, then all the other powers must be a bit less powerful than a feat. I find just difficult to adjust all the class restrictions to the class balance.

Aatma Caste: Spell duration increase text "Twice your level" is meaningless. Twice your level what? Additionally, most spells with duration last one minute, and there is not a lot of difference between one and two minutes. A better option might be to say that "when casting a spell whose duration is extended by being cast with a higher level spell slot, treat that spell as if it was cast with a spell slot one level higher than it actually was for the effects of its duration."

Thanks for the clarification for the duration feature. If you deconstruct the rule do you think a +d6 to damage in spells for the arcane classes (i have to clarify that this rules doesn't apply to cantrips) or +d8 to healing spells for the divine classes has the same, much or less power than a feat?

Hathiyaar Caste: is diplomacy a skill? Persuasion might be the better choice. Additionally, the Inspiration ability is a bit wonky. As a once per rest ability, you could streamline it a lot by just letting the ability pass out a single d6 inspiration die that can be spent to enhance saving throws. This allows it to 'stack' with other sources of advantage, while remaining meaningful.

Of course you are right about diplomacy. This happens if you have played too much 3rd e. Again you are right and i prefer your streamlined version of the "inspiration" ability. Again do you think this is more or less powerful than a feat. Maybe i should remove the "Army tactics" ability now that the other trait gets more power?

Sevak Caste: These certanly are a charismatic people. With everyone receiving charisma bonuses, or so it seems, this seems like less of a bonus and more of a baseline, making it seem less special. There seems to be no worker or peasant caste with a con or str bonus. Sevaks are good at getting allies out of combat, implying they are on the front lines and are for some reason given proficiency with light armor and bows. Skirmishers that disengage allies from danger? It seems odd.

Again, i think you are right. I should remove the Charisma ability score modifier and give em another ability score increase. As for their military training: The armor and weapon proficiency they get have to do with their basic training. Of course now that i prohibit them to become spellcasters this rule seems indeed odd (as you see these rules had many versions and some previous rulings now don't fit well). Maybe i would give em medium armor and short swords?

Ajaati Caste: What? I really can't make out much of what is going on in the description. They are outcast wanderers that should get +2 to two ability scores, but don't for some reason... this needs a lot of clarification. That being said, this caste seems mechanically superior to the other options, perhaps even the ridiculously powerful spellcaster one.

Here it is typo. I meant they get a +1 and a +2 to their ability scores and not two +2. Actually they are the same with the variant humans race except they get an extra +1 to one ability score. It is supposed that this bonus balance the charisma disadvantage in their social interactions.

Thank you again for your input. I really appreciate it!

 

[Harzel]

In my homebrew world i don't have different races (elves, dwarves, etc), but different cultures which work exactly as races.

One of these cultures is Chattigar, which is very strictly caste based.

Quite an interesting idea.

Aatma caste

Ability Score Increase: Your Charisma, Dexterity and Wisdom score increases by 1

To me, it seems like INT would be more appropriate than DEX for the Aatma.

Chattigar Caste System: Hathiyaars are not permitted to follow a priestly or specific arcane paths. For that reason they cannot be priests, sorcerers, warlocks and wizards. If someone takes levels from these classes and is exposed then she either loses her social status and demoted to Manush caste, or she is punished with the death penalty.

Did you mean Ajaati here? I don't see a 'Manush' caste.

Sevak training:
o You have bonus proficiency an artisan tool and land vehicles (elephants, camel, carts, etc).
o You have proficiency with light armor, medium armor and short sword, short bow and chakram (1d6 slashing, light, thrown (range 30/120), keen – reroll “1” on dmg roll).
o If you are within 5’ with an ally, you can use as bonus action, your help action, to disengage that ally from an opponent, moving him 5’ in an unoccupied space.

The PHB defines a 'Help' action, but you seem to be defining something different here. Perhaps you could use a different word, like 'Assist' or 'Rescue'.

Chattigar Caste System: Sevaks are not permitted to follow a priestly or specific arcane paths. For that reason they cannot be priests, sorcerers, warlocks and wizards. If someone takes levels from these classes and is exposed then she either loses her social status and demoted to Manush caste, or she is punished with the death penalty.

Again.

Ajaati caste

Ability Score Increase: One ability score increases by 2 and another ability score increases by 1.

Any particular reason to not allow (+1, +1, +1) as an alternative to (+2, +1)?

Ajaati no-man’s land: The fame of your caste precedes you. As Ajaati the other Chattigar despise you, and even other cultures who have heard about Manush people eye you with suspicion. You do not gain the Chattigar cultural ability score increase and you have disadvantage to your Charisma checks against other people of your culture. Moreover, you have – 2 at your Charisma checks with people of other cultures who know about Manush and recognize you as one.

1. 'Manush' again
2. What does the green text mean?

 

[Satyrn]

I don't like that every commoner - and every soldier, even - is proficient in the chakram. But then that's me as a Xena fan.

Just making it a martial weapon should be good, put it in the hands of real warriors with martial training.

Ajaati no-man’s land: The fame of your caste precedes you. As Ajaati the other Chattigar despise you, and even other cultures who have heard about Manush people eye you with suspicion. You do not gain the Chattigar cultural ability score increase and you have disadvantage to your Charisma checks against other people of your culture. Moreover, you have – 2 at your Charisma checks with people of other cultures who know about Manush and recognize you as one.

I think that -2 penalty should only apply to people from cultures with their own sort of untouchable caste. You kind of say that if by "recognize" you mean "know and agree with" the practice. But there are bound to be cultures that know about yet abhor the idea of such a caste system, and its people would not necessarily look down on the Manush, and thus that -2 penalty would be wholly out of place.

So yeah, I'm suggesting changing the penalty so it applies when dealing with other people indoctrinated into a caste system.

 

[gweinel]

Harzel, thank you for the input.

The text have been copy-pasted from a previous version of the Chattigar culture and some things have been slipped. Manush is the Ajaati people who decided to leave their home land for a better life. Something like Vistani. I uploaded a revised version which issues several inconsistencies.

Quite an interesting idea.



To me, it seems like INT would be more appropriate than DEX for the Aatma.

All Chattigar (except Ajaati who can choose any ability they like) have Dexterity as their "good" cultural (racial) ability skill score.

The PHB defines a 'Help' action, but you seem to be defining something different here. Perhaps you could use a different word, like 'Assist' or 'Rescue'.

Fixed it, thank you!

Any particular reason to not allow (+1, +1, +1) as an alternative to (+2, +1)?

Actually none, i fixed that too.

[*]What does the green text mean?
[/LIST]

The green text was from a previous version, i removed it.

Any other comment on the abilities?

 

[was]

..These are powerful traits. Maybe you could limit their power by having the PC's focus on certain options?

i.e. something like:

..Aatma: (choose a focus)
-Spell Master (Destruction): arcane spells deal an extra die damage
-Spell Master (Healing): divine healing spells heal an extra die
-Spell Master (Time): spells with a time duration, last twice as long.

..Hathiyaar: (choose a focus)
-Inspire (Endurance): rouse an ally w/in 60’ to overcome exhaustion granting him/her advantage on the roll.
-Inspire (Fearlessness): rouse an ally w/in 60’ to reroll a failed mind-affecting saving throw.
-Inspire (Intimidation): struck foes cannot use his/her reaction to make attack rolls until the end of turn.

..Sevak: (choose a focus)
-Expert (tactician): disengage and re-position an ally w/in 5' to an unoccupied space.
-Expert (tradesman): bonus prof. in a trade and an artisan tool
-Expert (transportation): bonus proficiency in land vehicles (and maybe beasts of burden).

..Ajaati caste: (choose a focus)
-Survival (Adaptability): gain one feat of your choice.
-Survival (Combat): maybe something rogue/sneak attack related.?
-Survival (Rugged Constitution): maybe something like advantage on saves vs. disease and/or poisons.?

 

[gweinel]

[MENTION=24488]was[/MENTION] thank you very much for your input.

According to the level of the power of the abilities, have in mind that they must be a bit weaker than a feat. Actually, according to the above mentioned analytical tool (racial abilities=12 points. each "+1" on ability scores= 2 points, skill proficiency =2 points and feat = 6points) which deconstructs the racial powers, the abilities of each caste must be the 2/3 of the power a feat.

Another thing that i put into play when i tried to balance the the castes are the class restrictions. For example giving a culture (race) proficiency with medium armor is quite strong, but since i prohibit all the spell casting, cloth-wearing classes (ex. wizards, sorcerers), then it is more of a "ribbon".

Having said that, i really love your approach. It reminds me the way it handles the cultural traits "Adventures of Middle Earth" (5e version of Middle-Earth). Given the time and the resources I would follow this path. However, giving such flexibility to the Chattigar culture means that i have to do the same to the other cultures of my world, something i am not sure i am prepared to do it for two reasons. It takes more work for me to do it. I have already problems balancing the existing cultures, if i multiply this x3 then it means more balancing work to do for me. Also, I want all abilities to be distinctive and colorful for each culture. By having x3 abilities, means that there is a good possibility some of them to be less interesting.

..These are powerful traits. Maybe you could limit their power by having the PC's focus on certain options?

i.e. something like:

..Aatma: (choose a focus)
-Spell Master (Destruction): arcane spells deal an extra die damage
-Spell Master (Healing): divine healing spells heal an extra die
-Spell Master (Time): spells with a time duration, last twice as long.

Actually i do this more or less. An arcane class like the wizard, sorcerer and warlock don't have divine healing. As you see i changed (weakened) the "time" ability making it more of a ribbon (just to fit better the three axioms of their godess).
Having said that i still i think that the "destruction" ability is too powerful. I am considering allowing it 3/day...

..Hathiyaar: (choose a focus)
-Inspire (Endurance): rouse an ally w/in 60’ to overcome exhaustion granting him/her advantage on the roll.
-Inspire (Fearlessness): rouse an ally w/in 60’ to reroll a failed mind-affecting saving throw.
-Inspire (Intimidation): struck foes cannot use his/her reaction to make attack rolls until the end of turn.

The only solid ability of the three is the "fearlessness". The exhaustion is more of ribbon (how many times do the players roll exhaustion spells?). The intimidation ability, while is quite strong, as it is worded (a)the attacker must hit, b) it lasts until the end of the turn-and not until the end of the next turn as most of this kind of abilities last) it has too strong restrictions and i think looses much of its potency. Do you think otherwise?

..Sevak: (choose a focus)
-Expert (tactician): disengage and re-position an ally w/in 5' to an unoccupied space.
-Expert (tradesman): bonus prof. in a trade and an artisan tool
-Expert (transportation): bonus proficiency in land vehicles (and maybe beasts of burden).

Again, the prof. bonus in artisan tools, as i get it, is more of a ribbon ability.

..Ajaati caste: (choose a focus)
-Survival (Adaptability): gain one feat of your choice.
-Survival (Combat): maybe something rogue/sneak attack related.?
-Survival (Rugged Constitution): maybe something like advantage on saves vs. disease and/or poisons.?

Your two abilities that you mention seems fitting but as i said i would prefer, at least now, to leave it one ability per caste.

Thank you again for your input. If you have anything else to say or critique don't hesitate.