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Please Help Me With Cleric Spell Choice

Amazing Triangle

First Post
I am playing a 17th level Cleric for the first time and I don't know what spells to choose. I have decided that I want the Strength and Healing domains. I just, with the volume of spells out there, don't know what to choose. Does anyone know some good spells to prepare?
 
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Dross

Explorer
Amazing Triangle said:
I am playing a 17th level Cleric for the first time and I don't know what spells to choose. I have decided that I want the Strength and Healing domains. I just, with the volume of spells out there, don't know what to choose. Does anyone know some good spells to prepare?

We do not use the many other books for spells so I can't give you a spell list. Also let people know what sources you have.

Try working from the other end. What do you want to do? Lots of damage, or buffing, or general helpful spells? What are the other PCs going to be, and what spells will help them (Magic Fang for a monk or animal companion is a good buffing spell, but a bit more specific than Bull's Strenght)?

Miracle/Wish is often a good choice to cover other bases.
 

Amazing Triangle

First Post
It is a battle cleric so a mix of boost and damage. I can only use the PHB and Spell Compendium. Miricle would be great if not for the cost per spell of XP and it is a 9th level spell and as a 17th level character I can only cast at level 8.
 

drdevoid

First Post
If you can only cast 4th level spells at caster level 8, then I'd recommend:

Close Wounds (2nd level, SpC)- as immediate action, keeps ally from dropping past -9 HP
Quick March (2nd level, SpC)- as swift action, Movement Boost for all allies for 1 round
Invisibility Purge (3rd level, PHb)- self-explanatory
Knight's Move (3rd level, SpC)- as swift action, allows closing with enemy provoking AoOs
Conviction, Mass (3rd level, SpC)- good stacking save bonus
Resurgence, Mass (4th?, SpC)- gives second chance at ongoing enchantments
Panacea (4th level, SpC)- good general affliction remover

And, maybe, Wall of Sand (4th level, SpC)- temporary battlefiled control
 

Krel

First Post
Amazing Triangle said:
It is a battle cleric so a mix of boost and damage. I can only use the PHB and Spell Compendium. Miricle would be great if not for the cost per spell of XP and it is a 9th level spell and as a 17th level character I can only cast at level 8.

Hmm...I would recommend the following:

Banishment, any of the Bigby's Spells, Holy Word, Bless, Blindness/Deafness, Bull's Strength, Darkness, Daylight, Destruction, any of the dispel spells, Doom, Earthquake, Endure Elements, Fire Storm, Flame Strike, Freedom of Movement, Greater Restoration, Harm, Heal, Holy Aura, Magic Circle Against Evil, Mass Heal, Neutralize Poison, Prayer, Protection from Elements, Raise Dead, Resurrection, Slay Living, Summon Monster Spells, Symbol, True Seeing, and Waterbreathing.

Why can't you cast 9th level spells? As a 17th level cleric, you should be able to.
 

baeleg

First Post
I also wonder if you're thinking of wish instead of miracle? From the SRD:

A miracle can do any of the following things.

* Duplicate any cleric spell of 8th level or lower (including spells to which you have access because of your domains).
* Duplicate any other spell of 7th level or lower.
* Undo the harmful effects of certain spells, such as feeblemind or insanity.
* Have any effect whose power level is in line with the above effects.

If the miracle has any of the above effects, casting it has no experience point cost.

I also didn't see Righteous Might or Divine Power in any of those lists, and those are good personal buffs. Spell Compendium also has a revised Righteous Wrath of the Faithful, which makes it a pretty good buff compared to it's original version.

Edit: forgot something. Since miracle can emulate a 7th level spell of any other type, and you're using spell compendium, you could emulate the 7th level wu jen spell giant size, and become colossal gaining +32 str, among other bonuses. I'd definitely check with the DM on that to see if it's ok though.
 
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Amazing Triangle

First Post
Miracle though it sould cast anything lower than 7th level no trouble really scares me. I was thinking Storm of Vengence or Elemental Monolith and Heal, mass as my domain spell. Miracle and wish did get mixed up in my mind ( I originally missed the 9th level spell cause I had calculated it as a sorcerer not a wizard.) What spells at the lower than 9th do you usually find are good to prepare?
 


Lord Pendragon

First Post
While not exactly parallel to your situation this thread might help you some. It's a thread I started some time ago, looking for advice on my own 15th-level PC's clerical spellcasting.

Key spells I've found, as a melee combatant using mostly clerical buffing: Divine Favor, Greater Magic Weapon, Magic Vestment, Righteous Might, Freedom of Movement...
 

mikebr99

Explorer
Lord Pendragon said:
While not exactly parallel to your situation this thread might help you some. It's a thread I started some time ago, looking for advice on my own 15th-level PC's clerical spellcasting.

Key spells I've found, as a melee combatant using mostly clerical buffing: Divine Favor, Greater Magic Weapon, Magic Vestment, Righteous Might, Freedom of Movement...
I'll add Shield of faith, shield of warding, holy storm, battlemagic perception and righteous wrath of the faithful to that list.

Mike
 

Amazing Triangle

First Post
My spells from Spell Compendium:
1st level - Blessed Aim, Grave Strike, Ebon eyes

2nd level - Quick March, Divine Insight, Deific Vengence, Close Wounds

3rd level - Mass Conviction, Mass Aid, Girallon's Blessing, Ring of Blades, Knight's Move

4th level - Moon Bolt, Lesser Holy Transformation, Spell Vulnerability, Recitation

5th level - Blistering Radiance, Divine Agility, Righteous Wrath of the Faithful

6th level - Bolt of Glory, Cometfall, Visage of the Diety, Spider Plague, Lucent Lance

7th level - Radiant Assault, Holy Transformation

8th level - Brilliant Aura, (Possible sub spell) Stormrage

9th level - Summon Elemental Monolith

How do these look?
 

Thanee

First Post
Not sure what feats you got, but if you got Quicken Spell (which is highly recommendable at this level), you can prepare some of the better buff spells of the lower levels (i.e. and esp. Divine Power) as quickened for those surprise encounters. :)

Bye
Thanee
 

Vanye

Explorer
Amazing Triangle said:
It is a battle cleric so a mix of boost and damage. I can only use the PHB and Spell Compendium. Miricle would be great if not for the cost per spell of XP and it is a 9th level spell and as a 17th level character I can only cast at level 8.

Light of Lumia, 1st level. You glow with a silvery light (30ft radius) , and during the duratino of the spell you can release the light in 2 bolts, each doing 1d6 damage (double to undead), with a 30ft range.

Not a lot of damage, but it's a 1st level spell, of which you get quite a few, and it's a light source for something like 10minutes/level.

The 2nd and 3rd level spells do more damage (2d6 & 3d6, respectively) and generate light as well.
 

Lord Pendragon

First Post
Vanye said:
Light of Lumia, 1st level. You glow with a silvery light (30ft radius) , and during the duratino of the spell you can release the light in 2 bolts, each doing 1d6 damage (double to undead), with a 30ft range.

Not a lot of damage, but it's a 1st level spell, of which you get quite a few, and it's a light source for something like 10minutes/level.

The 2nd and 3rd level spells do more damage (2d6 & 3d6, respectively) and generate light as well.
My PC just hit 16th level (14th-level clerical power) and my experience has been that if you're resorting to 1st and 2nd level spells for damage dealing, you're already in a heck of a lot of trouble and should be fleeing for your life.

At high levels, 1st and 2nd level spells are best used for buff and utility spells, preferably those you can cast outside of combat (like Resist Energy). For direct damage dealing, you should be using your high-end spell repertoire.
 

Amazing Triangle

First Post
Thanee: I choose the feats Extra turning, Divine Might, Sacred Boost, Agument Healing, Divine Shield, Combat Casting, Quicken Spell


Extra Turning to fuel all my other turn using feats. As I only have 5 turns a day this gives me 9 so I can boost and still turn.

I have to agree with Pendragon with the amount of high level damage spells a first level damage spell is better used as a buff.
 

Lord Pendragon

First Post
Amazing Triangle said:
Divine Shield...I only have 5 turns a day
With only a +2 charisma bonus at 17th level, I recommend you drop Divine Shield and pick up something else. The +2 bonus to AC isn't worth the standard action required to activate the ability. At 17th-level, one round can mean the difference between life and death.
 

Nail

First Post
Lord Pendragon said:
With only a +2 charisma bonus at 17th level, I recommend you drop Divine Shield and pick up something else. The +2 bonus to AC isn't worth the standard action required to activate the ability. At 17th-level, one round can mean the difference between life and death.
Exactly.

Your best bet is to play to the Cleric's strengths: as a support character. By level 17, my cleric was making it pretty tough for the bad guys to harm is at all. :] And the damage I was able to get our Ftr and Rog to do was truely astounding.

Consider re-doing your feat list. If I were you, I'd completely scrap every feat you've selected except for Quicken Spell. Take feats that improve your spell potential, like Divine Spell Power and Divine Metamagic (Quicken Spell). If your DM balks, propose an ammendment to the Divine Metamagic feat to limit it to spell levels you can cast.

I'd also ditch those domains, as they don't play to the Clerics strengths...but that's IMO. YMMV.

Then look over the spells (PH, PH II, SC) that have durations of 1 hr/lvl or greater. These are spells you should be casting on all party members as often as possible. I particularly enjoyed Energy Immunity, Magic Vestment, and Greater Magic Weapon....but there are many others.

As for healing: If I were you, I'd just invest in a few wands of Lesser Vigor. Save your spells for buffing the good guys and limiting the bad guys.

And really: let the fighter kill the bad guys. You're just making it possible.
 

Nail

First Post
BTW:

Miracle is the be-all, end-all spell for clerics. Use it frequently (and especially to buff...oh, the combinations you can come up with!).
 

Amazing Triangle

First Post
The reasons for the domain choice was to show what he was standing for / believing in. That and I choose Augement healing and Sacred Boost to push my healing higher. I choose Divine Shield because the DM has cut the 17th level funds to 112,000.

Well Nail, what domains would you choose? Healing seemed like a standard choice. I mean I don't want to be the main damage dealer of the party, nor do I want to spend every round buffing or taking care of the party in some way. IMHO Miracle has its downfall in that you prepare a 9th level slot for a 7th level spell. With only one 9th level spell other than my domain I would rather prepare something like Summon Elemental Monolith or Storm of Vengence. But I could be wrong.
 

Thanee

First Post
Amazing Triangle said:
Thanee: I choose the feats Extra turning, Divine Might, Sacred Boost, Agument Healing, Divine Shield, Combat Casting, Quicken Spell

Divine Might requires Power Attack, AFAIK.

Bye
Thanee
 

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