D&D 5E Please help me with the “one spell cast per round” rule

[Fleetwood C. DeVille]

unless i am mistaken you can do the bonus action spell and a cantrip 1 action spell ON YOUR TURN and then could AFTER YOUR TURN cast a reaction because that is a new turn.

but you could *not* cast a bonus action spell, cast an action cantrip and then still in your turn step off a ledge and reaction cast FF because that is still on your turn. I think someone suggested this earlier.

This is similar to how you can get sneak attack for one attack on your turn and them possibly again as a reaction AFTER your turn.

The only thing special for reactions to various "once per turn" I know of comes when they occur on other folks turns and as such get around your own per turn limitations.

You may cast a reaction spell at any time, even your turn. You then can't do another one until your turn comes around again. This gets back to the "Can I cast counterspell on my turn to stop someone else casting counterspell on me." discussion.

 

[5ekyu]

i have no objection to the fact that a reaction can be used any time, on your turn or other's turns.

but i see no evidence that that allows you to bypass the spells per turn limit established by the bonus action thing.

i will refer you to the sage ruling on sneak attack - in that instance the answer explicitly says you CAN get a second sneak attack in addition tot the one o your turn *if* the reaction occurs on someone else's turn.

is there a sage advice that states you *CAN* explicitly cast your reaction spell on your turn in addition to the bonus and cantrip?

There certainly may be. that column is not all that easy to tease out cases.

 

[5ekyu]

I don't think this limitation applies to reaction spells like shield for example. That said the bonus limitation is to your turn, so casting shield as a reaction on the same round during an enemies turn is not denied at all, nor would cast Feather Fall for being knocked off a ledge by a warlocks repelling blast for example. It seems to me that the reaction effect on your turn or on another s turn would supper seceded the action economy of bonus action / action the same way action surge does.

If I use Action: cast greater invisibility, Bonus action quicken meta magic: fire bolt, action surge cast action: fire bolt, and reaction cast: shield/counter spell on my enemies turn for example there is not issue. So the semantic hate is basically only against slow-fall? I tried to find a sage advice clarification but could not. I would just rule it a cleaver use of under used spell since its not the limit of casting the spell in the round that holds it back.

"B o n u s A c t io n
A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell, provided that you haven’t already taken a bonus action this turn. You can’t cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action."

"R e a c t io n s
Some spells can be cast as reactions. These spells take a fraction of a second to bring about and are cast in response to some event. If a spell can be cast as a reaction, the spell description tells you exactly when
you can do so."

i agree with you on this - a reaction is not an exception to the limit on spells cast during your turn but since (like AO and sneak) they can occur on other folks turns, they can create an additional casting opportunity "per round".

I see nothing that says reactions "on your turn" get to exempt themselves from any or all "per turn" limitations. i see a ruling for sneak attack that makes it clear the reaction *is* able to get the sneak attack if it is on someone else's turn.

 

[Satyrn]

According to that sage advice compendium. A caster with action surge is able to cast a bonus action spell, a cantrip with their action then use action surge and then cast a spell that uses an action.

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I'd rule the same way, but I can see how people would think Sage Advice is wrong.

I really wish Action Surge had been written to simply say "you get to take a whole 'nother turn."

 

[5ekyu]

I'd rule the same way, but I can see how people would think Sage Advice is wrong.

I really wish Action Surge had been written to simply say "you get to take a whole 'nother turn."

I would disagree not by saying that SA was wrong but that what was said in the quote was inaccrate.

What SA said was that for the bonus action spell limit if you tried to cast a ***second** spell with action surge it would not be limited to canttip only.

What was just quoted was a BA spell, a cantrip and using action surge to gain a **third** spell on your turn

The way i read SA literally...

You can BA spell and action cantrip on your turn. Two spells one limited to cantrip.

You can BA spell and action surge a spell with no cantrip limit and still have an action left that cannot be a spell.

You can action spell and surge action spell with bonus actions availabe that cannot be spells.

You can action spell andcreaction spell on yout turn but then cannot use you BA for spell.

You can action cantrip, reaction spell and later in the round use a reaction spell on someone elses turn.

In short, using a BA spell imposes a limit for that turn and some of that limit can be waived by action surge (cantrip limit) to allow a "second" spell but not all of it.

To get 3 spells in your turn they have to be action, surge action and reaction or some other combo without BA.

"Second" != "Third"



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[cbwjm]

I would disagree not by saying that SA was wrong but that what was said in the quote was inaccrate.

What SA said was that for the bonus action spell limit if you tried to cast a ***second** spell with action surge it would not be limited to canttip only.

What was just quoted was a BA spell, a cantrip and using action surge to gain a **third** spell on your turn

The way i read SA literally...

You can BA spell and action cantrip on your turn. Two spells one limited to cantrip.

You can BA spell and action surge a spell with no cantrip limit and still have an action left that cannot be a spell.

You can action spell and surge action spell with bonus actions availabe that cannot be spells.

You can action spell andcreaction spell on yout turn but then cannot use you BA for spell.

You can action cantrip, reaction spell and later in the round use a reaction spell on someone elses turn.

In short, using a BA spell imposes a limit for that turn and some of that limit can be waived by action surge (cantrip limit) to allow a "second" spell but not all of it.

To get 3 spells in your turn they have to be action, surge action and reaction or some other combo without BA.

"Second" != "Third"



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Nah, I think it is pretty clear that you can do the following on your turn.

Bonus action: healing word
Action: sacred flame
Action surge: flame strike
Reaction: shield

Until it is your turn again, you may not cast another reaction spell as you have already used your reaction for the round.

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[Tormyr]

I think the rule on bonus action spells was written poorly. Using an "especially swift spell" vs a spell with a casting time of an action should not make it more difficult to cast another spell.

Action Surge should allow fireball to be cast twice in a turn, but as soon as you cast healing word you cannot cast fireball with Action Surge?

You can cast fireball and then use counterspell to stop someone from using counterspell on you, but you cannot do the same with healing word?

It does not make sense. A bonus action spell should not be harder to use with other spells than a spell with a casting time of 1 action.

The bonus action rule should have been written to only restrict the spell you cast with your action to a cantrip to allow room for Action Surge and spells with a casting time of a reaction.

 

[5ekyu]

I think the rule on bonus action spells was written poorly. Using an "especially swift spell" vs a spell with a casting time of an action should not make it more difficult to cast another spell.

Action Surge should allow fireball to be cast twice in a turn, but as soon as you cast healing word you cannot cast fireball with Action Surge?

You can cast fireball and then use counterspell to stop someone from using counterspell on you, but you cannot do the same with healing word?

It does not make sense. A bonus action spell should not be harder to use with other spells than a spell with a casting time of 1 action.

The bonus action rule should have been written to only restrict the spell you cast with your action to a cantrip to allow room for Action Surge and spells with a casting time of a reaction.

I agree that the whole bonus action thing was badly designed and i think the interaction between it an reactions was not thought out well either or made clear.

I think the poor wording was reinforced when sage chose to say second spell as opposed to another spell and made it come across as lifting the cantrip part of the restriction.

Maybe it was in to stop quick fire ball plus fireball. Maybe the limit should have been put on quicken.

I myself would have no problem house ruling that or house ruling surge just resets it all.

But those would be choosing to hpuse rule or just ignore part of what the sage wrote and so i would not be inclined to give such when folks asked for rules help.

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[Hriston]

According to that sage advice compendium. A caster with action surge is able to cast a bonus action spell, a cantrip with their action then use action surge and then cast a spell that uses an action.

Only if that spell is a cantrip. I assume you're referring to this passage:

Keep in mind that this particular limit is specific to spells that use a bonus action. For instance, if you cast a second spell using Action Surge, you aren’t limited to casting a cantrip with it.​

I realize the way this is worded is awkward, but what it's saying is there's no limit on a second spell cast using Action Surge when the first spell was cast using an action, while if the first spell was cast using a bonus action then a second spell is limited to a cantrip.

 

[cbwjm]

Only if that spell is a cantrip. I assume you're referring to this passage:

Keep in mind that this particular limit is specific to spells that use a bonus action. For instance, if you cast a second spell using Action Surge, you aren’t limited to casting a cantrip with it.​

I realize the way this is worded is awkward, but what it's saying is there's no limit on a second spell cast using Action Surge when the first spell was cast using an action, while if the first spell was cast using a bonus action then a second spell is limited to a cantrip.

Yes, the second spell using your Action is limited to a cantrip, action surge gives you an entire action which is not restricted by having cast both a bonus action spell and a cantrip.

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