Hriston
Dungeon Master of Middle-earth
He isn't talking about three spells, only two. A third spell would still be subject to the restriction of not being able to cast another spell on your turn except a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
D&D 5E Please help me with the “one spell cast per round” rule
He isn't talking about three spells, only two. A third spell would still be subject to the restriction of not being able to cast another spell on your turn except a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
cbwjm
Seb-wejem
And that is fine but i tend to see the word "second" as meaning "second" not "any other" or "third" or "whatever i want it to be" when i an caring about a reference to RAW.
From the SA Compendium:
If you cast a spell, such as healing word, with a bonus action, you can cast another spell with your action, but that other spell must be a cantrip. Keep in mind that this particular limit is specific to spells that use a bonus action. For instance, if you cast a second spell using Action Surge, you aren’t limited to casting a cantrip with it.
I believe that Crawford is saying that if you cast two spells, one using an Action, and the other using Action Surge, there is no requirement that the second spell be a cantrip, as opposed to the situation where one spell is cast with a Bonus Action and the other is cast with an Action. His language is not precise, but I don't read this as negating the bonus action limitations. Here is Crawford's response to the direct question regarding whether action surge lets you cast two spells in one turn:https://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/04/17/action-surge-spell-3/ Yes, you can cast two spells with action surge but you still have to be mindful of the rules regarding bonus action spells. Since Action Surge doesn't give you a new turn, the rule on casting Bonus Action spells should still be in effect for an Action Surge.
I can see where intelligent folks can read the same thing and reach different conclusions. Probably won't ruin your fun either way. Like zombies that keep making Con saves, arguments about Bonus Action spells never die.
If you cast a spell, such as healing word, with a bonus action, you can cast another spell with your action, but that other spell must be a cantrip. Keep in mind that this particular limit is specific to spells that use a bonus action. For instance, if you cast a second spell using Action Surge, you aren’t limited to casting a cantrip with it.
I believe that Crawford is saying that if you cast two spells, one using an Action, and the other using Action Surge, there is no requirement that the second spell be a cantrip, as opposed to the situation where one spell is cast with a Bonus Action and the other is cast with an Action. His language is not precise, but I don't read this as negating the bonus action limitations. Here is Crawford's response to the direct question regarding whether action surge lets you cast two spells in one turn:https://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/04/17/action-surge-spell-3/ Yes, you can cast two spells with action surge but you still have to be mindful of the rules regarding bonus action spells. Since Action Surge doesn't give you a new turn, the rule on casting Bonus Action spells should still be in effect for an Action Surge.
I can see where intelligent folks can read the same thing and reach different conclusions. Probably won't ruin your fun either way. Like zombies that keep making Con saves, arguments about Bonus Action spells never die.
thanks.
ClaytonCross
Kinder reader Inflection wanted
So I think we all agree:
Action spell (Fireball), run off cliff Reaction Spell (slowfall), action surge: 1 action spell (fireball) - ok
Action spell (Fireball), Metamagic Quicken 1 action catrip (Firebolt), Reaction (shield) on enemies turn on the same round - ok
Action spell (Fireball), Metamagic Quicken 1 action catrip (Firebolt),action surge: cantrip spell (Firebolt), Reaction (shield) on enemies turn on the same round - ok
The questions are:
1. Action spell (Fireball), Metamagic Quicken 1 action catrip (Firebolt),action surge: 1 action spell (Fireball), Reaction (shield) on enemies turn on the same round - ?
2. Action spell (Fireball), Metamagic Quicken 1 action catrip (Firebolt),action surge: cantrip spell (Firebolt), Reaction (Hellish rebuke in response to attack of opportunity during your movement, or slowfall as a result of "falling" off a cliff deliberately) on your turn - ?
I asked Sageadvice via twitter:
twitter post
"Sorcerer quicken bonus action spell , Action spell, reaction time spell during turn like walk off a cliff slow fall, Multiclass Figher action surge action spell. Does the bonus action rule prevent reaction and restrict action surge spell to cantrip?"
I usually don't get answer but if I do I will try to post the reply.
Action spell (Fireball), run off cliff Reaction Spell (slowfall), action surge: 1 action spell (fireball) - ok
Action spell (Fireball), Metamagic Quicken 1 action catrip (Firebolt), Reaction (shield) on enemies turn on the same round - ok
Action spell (Fireball), Metamagic Quicken 1 action catrip (Firebolt),action surge: cantrip spell (Firebolt), Reaction (shield) on enemies turn on the same round - ok
The questions are:
1. Action spell (Fireball), Metamagic Quicken 1 action catrip (Firebolt),action surge: 1 action spell (Fireball), Reaction (shield) on enemies turn on the same round - ?
2. Action spell (Fireball), Metamagic Quicken 1 action catrip (Firebolt),action surge: cantrip spell (Firebolt), Reaction (Hellish rebuke in response to attack of opportunity during your movement, or slowfall as a result of "falling" off a cliff deliberately) on your turn - ?
I asked Sageadvice via twitter:
twitter post
"Sorcerer quicken bonus action spell , Action spell, reaction time spell during turn like walk off a cliff slow fall, Multiclass Figher action surge action spell. Does the bonus action rule prevent reaction and restrict action surge spell to cantrip?"
I usually don't get answer but if I do I will try to post the reply.
Hriston
Dungeon Master of Middle-earth
Yes, I agree with this.
I'll agree with this only if you cast fireball as a quickened spell and use your action to cast firebolt.
No, even switching the positions of fireball and firebolt, casting another non-cantrip on the same turn as a quickened spell is verboten.
I think he'll say yes and that the 'action spell' is restricted to a cantrip as well.
ClaytonCross
Kinder reader Inflection wanted
So I got a reply from [MENTION=6720767]ArmandoDo[/MENTION]val who always seems to reply to these posts in place of the people I ask. (Not sure who he is but ok) He replied with links to other indirect questions that answer my questions.
Casting a bonus action spell precludes you from casting reaction spells... ouch
Also, If you use a bonus action spell all the catrip restriction does apply to a spell cast by using action surge... ouch again
So....all my examples were wrong due to bonus action spells and reaction spells.
Your best is 3, Action cast spell, Metamagic Quicken 1 action catrip as bonus action, action surge 1 action cantrip spell. ( or some shape of 1 action spell and 2 1 action cantrips).
Casting a bonus action spell precludes you from casting reaction spells... ouch
Also, If you use a bonus action spell all the catrip restriction does apply to a spell cast by using action surge... ouch again
So....all my examples were wrong due to bonus action spells and reaction spells.
Your best is 3, Action cast spell, Metamagic Quicken 1 action catrip as bonus action, action surge 1 action cantrip spell. ( or some shape of 1 action spell and 2 1 action cantrips).
Hriston
Dungeon Master of Middle-earth
You can still cast a spell using your reaction on another creature's turn, just not on your turn in which you are casting a bonus action spell.
Thanks for researching this.
The ruling does not pass the smell test. Casting fireball and feather fall is okay, but "an exceptionally swift" spell like healing word along with feather fall is not?
Wow That's Fantastic
EDIT: Additionally, Armando did not address the dissonance between dimension door and counterspell being okay but misty step and counterspell is not. Armando just said, "BA spells are powerful because they can be used at will without using your action. Reaction spells need a trigger, aren't prone to abuse." If they are not prone to abuse, they should not be restricted by BA spells.
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