Please Help: Tail Blade

[IcyCool]

The Tail Blade is not a light weapon, according to this description, and so the minimum penalties are going to be -4 / -4 / etc.

Not entirely true. He could designate his tail as his primary "hand", and use light weapons in his off-hands, could he not? That would, of course, mean that any iterative attacks he gets all have to be done with his tail weapon.

Flashing Tail of Doom!

 

[Ambrus]

It's a manufactured weapon. As such, it cannot be used as a primary or secondary natural attack. Treat it just like you would a human with two longswords (or other TWF combo) using the TWF rules, including however you determine when the penalties apply.

I think you misunderstood what I was asking. I know the tail blade is a manufactured weapon. I was wondering how it interacts with a creatures natural attack routine (i.e. claw, claw, bite, tail blade) not, for instance, if a lizardman was wielding two swords and a tail blade together (in which case the multifighting rules apply). Two weapon fighting rules don't apply if a creature is only wielding a single manufactured weapon.

Say you have a creature with a +6 BAB and that normally the creature has a bite, claw, claw attack routine with its bite being its primary attack. Normally when wielding a sword in one hand that creature could make two attacks with its sword +6/+1 and then follow up with its other natural attacks assuming those limbs/teeth are free. So then this creature would follow up its two sword attacks with its empty claw and its bite both at +1. In this case, the creatures primary attack is the sword, and not its bite. It's bite is instead counted as a secondary attack which means the attack roll is rolled at +1 instead of its usual +6 and its strength bonus is only counted at half on its damage roll.

The tail blade however is different in the sense that it doesn't replace/occupy one of the creature's claws in a full attack routine. It makes use of a limb that was previously useless in combat. If the tail blade is its primary weapon the creature's attack routine would become +6/+1/+1/+1/+1 (tail blade x2, claws x2, bite). If the creature has Multiattack as a feat all of its secondary attacks would gain an effective +3 to hit making its attack routine +6/+1/+4/+4/+4 and the creature never has to bother with Multiweapon Fighting. Effectively the tail blade grants two extra attacks per round to the creature with little to no trade-off. That's a pretty sweet deal. There's no reason why every creature with a tail wouldn't want to strap one on.

On the other hand if the line "or it can make a tail blade attack in addition to its other melee attacks" (emphasis mine) means that the tail blade can only be used to make a single extra attack that would seem to indicate that a high BAB wouldn't matter to a creature wearing one. I wanted to know how people interpreted this weapon. What's the creature's attack routine look like while wearing one?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Not entirely true. He could designate his tail as his primary "hand", and use light weapons in his off-hands, could he not?

Yeah, he could do that, depending on how you read the TWF / MWF rules.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I
The tail blade however is different in the sense that it doesn't replace/occupy one of the creature's claws in a full attack routine.

In which way it is quite similar to an unarmed strike.

That's a pretty sweet deal. There's no reason why every creature with a tail wouldn't want to strap one on.

Well, it might look pretty silly ...

It's also an exotic weapon, which costs you a feat to use without a hefty penalty.

I wanted to know how people interpreted this weapon. What's the creature's attack routine look like while wearing one?

I'd say you've got it pretty much down pat.

 

[Ambrus]

Well, it might look pretty silly ...

You've got a point. Never underestimate the power of vanity. I had my character splurge 3k gp on a suit of mithral barding last weekend to replace a suit of mithral shirt which gave me a better AC just because I felt that it looked silly.

It's also an exotic weapon, which costs you a feat to use without a hefty penalty.

But even without the feat a creature could still wield one and only the tail blade's attacks would suffer the non-proficiency penalties. Since those attacks are essentially free attacks anyway its not that big a loss. The only downside is that the creature's primary attack gets turned into a secondary attack. So with the multiattack feat but lacking the exotic weapon feat the creature's attack routine would be +2/-3/+4/+4/+4 instead of +6/+4/+4. I think that's a pretty good tradeoff. Don't you?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Keep in mind the penalty the creature is taking to damage, as well, by making all his natural weapons into secondary attacks.

Also consider that, for most of these creatures, their bite and claw attacks are not particularly powerful to begin with (lizardfolk claws and bites are 1d4), and will never benefit from iterative attacks.

Keep in mind the other limitations of natural attacks, as well: expensive to enhance (if it's possible at all), difficulties with damage reduction, etc.

In short, I think this weapon is really only going to make sense for a creature who doesn't want to use a "real" manufactured weapon.

 

[Ambrus]

difficulties with damage reduction, etc.

Which is what the cold iron tail blade is for![/QUOTE]

In short, I think this weapon is really only going to make sense for a creature who doesn't want to use a "real" manufactured weapon.

Just like my character!

Okay. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't misunderstanding how the tail blade worked. Thanks for you guys' help.