Please Help with these Gauntlets

[jaker2003]

Ok, I've been wanting to make these for a while and finally fleshed it out last night. They're a weapon for a guy whose devoted himself to killing drow after a squad made off with his family. This guy is a pyromaniac/mancer and favors fire magic, so the weapon will reflect this. It's also a part of a bigger set of items that grant synergistic abilities when used together. Well, here's the gauntlets:

Firebrand’s Gauntlets: This pair of +1 wounding spiked gauntlets gain the flaming burst ability after they successfully damage a creature’s constitution. The activated ability lasts for the duration of the encounter. Even if the flaming ability is not active, the weapon still deals its extra fire damage on a successful critical hit.
The gauntlets also have the fiercebane and keen weapon abilities. These two abilities only function against creatures with the elf subtype. Against elves, the gauntlet’s enhancement bonus is +2 better, critical threat range doubles, and the weapon deals another 2d6 damage. The weapon also deals an additional 1d10 damage to elves on a critical hit. The gauntlets also glow red when elves come within 100 feet.
The gauntlet’s final ability is to generate a produce flame spell at will. The flames generated can be thrown up to 120 feet (no range penalty) with a ranged touch attack. The flames need not be thrown, and add fire damage to melee touch attacks.
This spell deals 2d6+10 fire damage. The gauntlets receive a +5 bonus on checks to overcome an elf’s spell resistance to this spell. Produce flame does not allow a saving throw.
Strong Conjuration; CL 12th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Energy Admixture (fire), Favored Magic Foe (humanoid [elf]), Greater Spell Penetration, (flame blade or flame strike or fireball), Mordenkainen’s sword, produce flame, summon monster I; Price 402,305 gp; Cost 201,152 gp and 5 sp + 16,092 XP.

[sblock=Pricing Notes: ]
Masterwork spiked gauntlets: +305 gp
Minimum enhancement (+1), Wounding ability (+2), Flaming Burst ability (+2), Fiercebane ability (+2), Keen ability (+2) = Total Enhancement (+9): 162,000 gp
Produce Flame at will [(lvl x CL x 2,000gp) x 2]
Spell is bumped up to 5th level for double damage. (5x12x2000)x2= 240,000 gp[/sblock]


OK, I want to know how accurate my pricing is.
I want opinions on the item itself (constructive criticism alway welcome).
Notes:
Favored Magic Foe is found in Complete Mage.
Energy Admixture is found in Complete Arcane.
Fiercebane is found in DMG II.

Thnx

 

[DreamChaser]

My question is why does the produce flame effect deal twice the normal damage of the spell?

Never mind, I see...though I am not sure how that came about. +4 levels is maximize not double...

Overall, they seem so expensive that the math may as well be right...we're talking something that no one could ever really afford. Heck, according to the Magic Item Compendium, an appropriate item for a 30th level character is 300,000. This is half again that price!

DC

 

[ceratitis]

can you please explain the on/off flaming burst again?
also i think you can get a discount on most of the other enchantments as they only work some of the time
also what is the summon monster for??
and drop the bit about produce flame usable on a touch attack. or better yet drop it all together and save lots of money

 

[jaker2003]

My question is why does the produce flame effect deal twice the normal damage of the spell?

Never mind, I see...though I am not sure how that came about. +4 levels is maximize not double...

The Energy Admixture feat comes into play here. The feat allows you to double the damage an energy spell deals by adding another energy type. In the 'special' portion of the description it states that the same energy type can be added to the originating spell. The feat increases the spell level by four levels.

Overall, they seem so expensive that the math may as well be right...we're talking something that no one could ever really afford. Heck, according to the Magic Item Compendium, an appropriate item for a 30th level character is 300,000. This is half again that price!

I want to refer you to page 54 of the DMG. The table on the page shows expected wealth by level. These numbers allow sufficient money to create the gauntlets before level 20. The numbers on this table are generated by average treasure per encounter and average encounters per level. A character of a particular level could have much more capital available to create or purchase the gauntlets.

can you please explain the on/off flaming burst again?

The gauntlets have the wounding weapon ability, so they deal 1 point of Constitution damage to any creature they hit (unless that creature is immune to critical hits). The flaming ability automatically activates when you strike a qualifying target. You can't turn it on before combat. The ability lasts for the duration of the combat encounter. When the fighting stops, the flames go out.

also i think you can get a discount on most of the other enchantments as they only work some of the time

I think that too, but am not sure how to decide that. It's one of the reasons I asked for help.

also what is the summon monster for??

Summon Monster I is the required spell for the bane and fiercebane weapon abilities.

drop the bit about produce flame usable on a touch attack. or better yet drop it all together and save lots of money

The produce flame spell requires only a touch attack to deal damage. This ability is paramount to the concept, I'd rather drop all the weapon enhancements and just make this a pair of gloves that cast produce flame at will than give up the ability. As to the ability's price tag . . . it costs that much because it was bumped up to 5th level to double the spell damage. If it was used as the original 1st level form, it would only cost 20,000gp to add to the gauntlets. Of course, then it would only do 1d6+5 fire damage. I suppose that's still enough to drop any level 1 NPC.
If push comes to shove, I can swap out the Energy Admixture feat for the Humanoid (elf) Bane Magic feat. That way, the ability would have it's cheaper 20,000gp cost and deal an extra 2d6 damage to drow (or any other kind of elf). But if I go that route, the ability would lose some of it's 'oomph' against non-elf targets. 6-11 fire damage isn't that little is it?

Note: Bane Magic is found in Heroes of Horror.

 

[DreamChaser]

Yes...in theory they have enough money, but that is the equivalent of saying that because the average person will earn $40k x 40 years = $1.6M that they would have the capital to buy a million dollar house. They would not. Why? Because the vast majority of that $1.6M goes to paying for the person's life.

Those tables assume what ACTUALLY happens and that is that people spend their money when they get it. At no point does a pre-epic character have enough money at a single level to create, let alone buy, this item.

That fact makes it clear that this is not an appropriate item for a non-epic character.

So, as I said, it is powerful enough that the concern over whether or not it is appropriately priced becomes somewhat academic. The Epic level rules did little to better codify power curves post level 20 (heck, 3e barely managed to codify them post level 10). Epic spells are not really balanced with non-epic spells character level for character level and this item is not well balanced with non-epic items.

That said, I don't believe that it is game breaking. Just that it is in that point of fuzzy determination between the helm of brilliance (125,000) and staff of the maji (???).

DC

 

[jaker2003]

Is this more practical?

________Firebrand’s Gauntlets: This pair of +1 flaming burst gauntlets also have the fiercebane weapon ability. This ability only functions against creatures with the elf subtype. Against elves, the gauntlet’s enhancement bonus is +2 better, and the weapon deals another 2d6 damage. The weapon also deals an additional 1d10 damage to elves on a critical hit. The gauntlets also glow red when elves come within 100 feet.
________The gauntlet’s final ability is to generate a produce flame spell at will. The flames generated can be thrown up to 120 feet (no range penalty) with a ranged touch attack. The flames need not be thrown, and add fire damage to melee touch attacks.
________This spell deals 1d6+5 fire damage. The flames deal an additional 2d6 fire damage to any elf struck by them. The gauntlets receive a +4 bonus on checks to overcome spell resistance to this spell. The gauntlets gain another +1 bonus if the target is an elf. Produce flame does not allow a saving throw.
________Strong Conjuration; CL 12th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Humanoid (elf) Bane Magic, Favored Magic Foe (humanoid [elf]), Greater Spell Penetration, (flame blade or flame strike or fireball), produce flame, summon monster I; Price 98,302 gp; Cost 49,151 gp + 3,932 XP.

[sblock=Pricing Notes: ]Masterwork gauntlets: +302 gp
Minimum enhancement (+1), Flaming Burst ability (+2), Fiercebane ability (+2) = Total Enhancement (+5): 50,000 gp
Produce Flame at will [(lvl x CL x 2,000gp) x 2]
(1x12x2000)x2= 48,000 gp[/sblock][sblock=Feat Notes: ]Favored Magic Foe is found in Complete Mage.
Fiercebane is found in DMG II.
Bane Magic is found in Heroes of Horror.[/sblock]

 

[DreamChaser]

This works out to about a 20th level item, equivalent overall to a +7 weapon, ring of regeneration, or a book of ability increase +3.

This seems more in line with a high level character's signature weapon (especially one that so deeply hates elves).

DC

 

[jaker2003]

Finalized

This works out to about a 20th level item, equivalent overall to a +7 weapon, ring of regeneration, or a book of ability increase +3.

This seems more in line with a high level character's signature weapon (especially one that so deeply hates elves).

DC

Yay, Approval!

[sblock=Peer Approved Version: ]________Firebrand’s Gauntlets: This pair of +1 flaming burst gauntlets also have the fiercebane weapon ability. This ability only functions against creatures with the elf subtype. Against elves, the gauntlet’s enhancement bonus is +2 better, and the weapon deals another 2d6 damage. The weapon also deals an additional 1d10 damage to elves on a critical hit. The gauntlets also glow red when elves come within 100 feet.
________The gauntlet’s final ability is to generate a produce flame spell at will. The flames generated can be thrown up to 120 feet (no range penalty) with a ranged touch attack. The flames need not be thrown, and add fire damage to melee touch attacks.
________This spell deals 1d6+5 fire damage. The flames deal an additional 2d6 fire damage to any elf struck by them. The gauntlets receive a +4 bonus on checks to overcome spell resistance to this spell. The gauntlets gain another +1 bonus if the target is an elf. Produce flame does not allow a saving throw.
________Strong Conjuration; CL 12th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Humanoid (elf) Bane Magic, Favored Magic Foe (humanoid [elf]), Greater Spell Penetration, (flame blade or flame strike or fireball), produce flame, summon monster I; Price 98,302 gp; Cost 49,151 gp + 3,932 XP.

[sblock=Pricing Notes: ]
Masterwork gauntlets: +302 gp
Minimum enhancement (+1), Flaming Burst ability (+2), Fiercebane ability (+2) = Total Enhancement (+5): 50,000 gp
Produce Flame at will [(lvl x CL x 2,000gp) x 2]
________(1x12x2000)x2= 48,000 gp [/sblock]
[sblock=Feat Notes: ]
Favored Magic Foe is found in Complete Mage.
Fiercebane is found in DMG II.
Bane Magic is found in Heroes of Horror. [/sblock][/sblock]

 

[ceratitis]

looks all right to me too

 

[Slapzilla]

Pretty sweet little item. Nice job.