Please Let Me Play My Character

[JacksonTT]

Okay, folks, I’ve been reading the posts over the last few months and noticed a few things that’ve been starting to bother me. People post their dislikes about the way certain characters act, the way others interact with each other, and the way they react to their surroundings. I hear people complain that they’re not allowed to be evil the way they want, and then I hear them turn around and say characters aren’t being nice enough anymore. They even say they don’t like the way certain characters speak. It all makes me think just one thing.

Let me play my character.

We’re all here (I thought) to roleplay. Interactive Story Role Playing. Right? Role playing means I’m playing a character, not myself. A character who has his/her own history, personality, motivations, quirks, flaws, etc. A character who isn’t perfect, or right all the time. Or even most of the time. He doesn’t have to do the right thing, or be nice and supportive to everyone he comes across. He doesn’t have to welcome strangers over to his table, or be impressed by the latest scary guy. He can speak the way he wants, act the way he wants around his friends, etc. This is all in-character stuff. This is all him. I’m not saying you have to like it. I’m not even saying you should. But when I come to the message boards and see people complaining OOC about the way characters act IC? Come on, people, they’re not supposed to be perfect. We’ll let evil people be unpleasant, because they’re evil. But if you’re not, you’re required to be a happy, smiling helpful person who’s always got a chair open for anyone. Or else you’re a bad player who’s clique-ish.

I’m getting really sick of the whole clique complaint. There’re reasons for gaming within a set group, and not all of them are, “I feel like being a jerk and excluding everyone else.” In another thread a while back, it was pointed out that different players had different role-playing styles. While I might enjoy a less-powerful gaming style, someone else might prefer high-fantasy high-magic campaigns. Both are fine, to each their own. But I don’t necessarily want the high-powered guy solving all my problems, because why wouldn’t he if he was my friend? It doesn’t fit in with my chosen style. There’re other reasons, too. Maybe our CHARACTERS don’t have a lot of reasons to particularly trust people anymore. Maybe we’re playing people who’ve been used and manipulated one too many times. Maybe they’re sick of it, and only really want to associate with people they know they can trust. Maybe they’re okay with other people once they decide they can trust them, too, but they’re not going to immediately welcome strangers with open arms.

And then I see posts like this:
“I tried a similar, but more extreme, experiment a few times. I brought in someone who was in some kind of danger, but was a completely neew screen name. For example, one character was sick and slowly dying, and another was contemplating suicide. What happened? They were almost entirely ignored, and, basically, allowed to die. Not only did this show a bad reaction towards new characters, but it also made little to no sense In Character.”

Personally, I don't see what sense it makes for someone to come into a purely public area when they're dying, instead of some place where they can get the help they apparently expect, like a temple or something. And some of us have a highly contemptuous view of suicide and don't take kindly to people contemplating it, especially as an attempt to get attention, which is what was clearly stated as this player’s intention. *I've* brought in new characters before, without the expectation of instant acceptance or friendships, and I've had an okay time. Seriously. I’ve seen people come in with very bizarre and “exotic” characters, like races which would normally be considered unapproachable, or unpleasant, and then complain when no one comes over to them and initiates anything. It’s fine to play things like that, but just be ready to get treated like something bizarre.

I’m not saying it’s not a difficult thing to be a new person, and I’m not saying everyone’s being fair. I know it can be frustrating, especially if someone’s calling you a “st00pid n00b” or something else equally juvenile and ignorant. I’m not condoning any of that. I guess what I’m basically saying is, stop telling people how to play their characters, stop telling us how our characters should act and react, and stop telling us we’re jerks because our characters aren’t all the nicest people on the planet.

 

[Nugan]

And then I see posts like this:
“I tried a similar, but more extreme, experiment a few times. I brought in someone who was in some kind of danger, but was a completely neew screen name. For example, one character was sick and slowly dying, and another was contemplating suicide. What happened? They were almost entirely ignored, and, basically, allowed to die. Not only did this show a bad reaction towards new characters, but it also made little to no sense In Character.”

I'll get to the rest of your topic, but I wanted to address this first:
Since that's a direct quote from me, I suppose I should try to justify it. As far as IC justifications can really go, anyway. People get attacked/fall ill/whatever in public place all the time. Plus, the setting considered, wouldn't a marketplace frequent by people who are often seen using power magic be a perfect place for a pesent who was on death's door to go in a last ditch attempt to get healing? Particularly if he couldn't afford the services of the the local cleric or whatever.

Now, to the main point:

Of course you can play your character however you want, but I don't think that's what these threads are talking about, and its certainly not what I've been talking about.

I'm talking about how we treat each other out of character. About ignoring people who we think are "inferior" for whatever reason. About trying to perserve our little cliques while ignoring even big things like someone dying twenty feet from you IC. About mistreating people who happen to Role-play differently. About why so many new players just give up and walk away or go beserk and get banned.

In our drive to excel at role-playing our characters we can't forget that there are real people who really want to be accepted out there. We can't hurt them in the name of "playing our character".

I'm not saying your character can't be a jerk to everyone, but the players should not be.

 

[Jardel_Karabella]

Re: Re: Please Let Me Play My Character

I'll get to the rest of your topic, but I wanted to address this first:
Since that's a direct quote from me, I suppose I should try to justify it. As far as IC justifications can really go, anyway. People get attacked/fall ill/whatever in public place all the time. Plus, the setting considered, wouldn't a marketplace frequent by people who are often seen using power magic be a perfect place for a pesent who was on death's door to go in a last ditch attempt to get healing? Particularly if he couldn't afford the services of the the local cleric or whatever.

I don't buy this one bit, for four reasons:

(1) Juxta is supposed to be carefully monitored and regulated both by the Marshalls and Moonbeam Adepts. It is not the Wild West. The concept that you just randomly got attacked on the way is highly implausible and contradicts from the setting. Juxta is a place of law and order, therefore criminals there take care not to get caught so they certainly don't just mug people in the open then leave them to go get help.

(2)Why in blazes would you go to a marketplace when there's a temple district right next to it? If you got stabbed by a mugger and you had a choice of going to a private hospital or a supermarket, which would you choose? Is your bank balance really worth that much more than your life?

(3) "I couldn't afford healing." doesn't fly either considering there are a vast multitude of temples in Juxta (at least one of them is liable to take pity on you) and failing that... there are a vast multitudes of portals to other worlds. Somewhere there has to be a place where you'd get help, especially since you'd have no reason to believe that if the religious orders who run the temple wouldn't help you then why would one off duty in the marketplace do it for free?

(4) If you want to "off-screen" mortally cripple yourself and blame it on the setting, then IMO, you can damn well "off-screen" get yourself some help from the setting too. If you think it's illogical nobody would help your char... have them helped by some of the dozens of underappreciated NPC shoppers and merchants.

The crawling in on the brink of death routine is old, cliched and has been incredibly over-used by so many people I don't blame anyone who doesn't go to help the dying guy. In short it's an uninspired demand for attention (highlighted by your claim it made no sense for nobody to come and help you).

I do not take kindly to OOC demands from strangers when I'm RPing. Particularly when they're random and for no better reason than they want attention. I certainly do not reward them by humouring the person unquestioningly and making them feel their idea was a great one they should try again whenever they want attention.

In short... if you want a good response, make a good entrance. You know what entrance I've found get's the best results?

Walk in like you're coming to a marketplace, then go over and find a reason to introduce yourself to some strangers you think you'd like to talk to. If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. A great tip for this, ask them about themselves.

Seriously, you'll find you'll get a much better reaction to simple human friendliness and socialising than you will to meladramatic sequences focusing around your character's impending death or the destruction of their world.

Go in, make some friends first, then you have a chance of getting people come help you.

 

[Tharivious_Meliamne]

Originally posted by Nugan
I'm not saying your character can't be a jerk to everyone, but the players should not be.

Precisely my opinion here.

I can't speak for anyone else on this board except for myself, so I will express my point of view here. Personally, I've never stated "You have to play your character this way", all of my statements have been directed at the OOC inter-person communication.

I think that the vast majority of the posters who have made statements as of late do not intend to force someone to alter their playing style. The thread about evil began as a question to see what the general opinion was, it wasn't out to make people play evil characters. The thread about not getting into storylines ( Which I believe is the one you mean when you refer to when you speak of one where people aren't nice enough ) wasn't about making players make their characters nicer. It was about trying to find a sense of community among the other players.

As Nugan said:

I'm talking about how we treat each other out of character. About ignoring people who we think are "inferior" for whatever reason. About trying to perserve our little cliques while ignoring even big things like someone dying twenty feet from you IC. About mistreating people who happen to Role-play differently. About why so many new players just give up and walk away or go beserk and get banned.

This is what the posts have been about in my opinion. Making the community better for those involved so that they can play their characters as they want to play them.

 

[Nugan]

Well, this is a pretty fickle and pointless thing to argue about. Particularly since my point was to duplicate a new player looking for attention, and prove that they would be ignored even when IC rping would clearly dictate otherwise.

Anyway:

(1) Yet this still happens all the time. People get in fights in the Emporium constantly. Plus, you're telling me that a marketplace in a well regulated city would be crime free? Crime is everywhere, in every city, no matter how much the officers of the law try to stop it. Surely even the Marshals haven't achieved perfect harmony.

(2) The thing is that, chances are, this individual was new to the plane. He may not have been able to make it to the Temple district in time, or he may simply not have known his way. People come to the Market on Juxta from all over the planes to do business, most of them don't come to see the temples.

(3) Sure you might find help somewhere else, but why not Juxta? There's plenty of people there, and many of them are healers. There's also plenty of portals leading in to Juxta, making it an easy enopugh place to get too.

(4) Yes, I could have, but that would have been beyond the point. The point was to see if this character would draw attention. Obviously that can't be done off site.

There, we've picked this to death.

Now, not to sound bitter, but: Why didn't anyone help him? Surely that's a lot harder to justify than how he got there.

I'm sorry if any of this sounded angry. I'm not trying to be angry. The whole point was to see how hard it would be for someone new to be accepted. I wanted to see why so many new people complain and leave. I guess I found out.

 

[Jardel_Karabella]

Particularly since my point was to duplicate a new player looking for attention, and prove that they would be ignored even when IC rping would clearly dictate otherwise.

Well I think you would have gotten much better results if you'd have chosen a nicer, more approachable entrace.

(1) Yet this still happens all the time. People get in fights in the Emporium constantly. Plus, you're telling me that a marketplace in a well regulated city would be crime free? Crime is everywhere, in every city, no matter how much the officers of the law try to stop it. Surely even the Marshals haven't achieved perfect harmony.

Okay, a newbie wouldn't know this happens all the time. Because it's not supposed to, the setting of Juxta clearly outlines it as lawful and peaceful community. Laws are upheld and the marshalls are semingly omnipresent and phenomenally powerful.

All fights are to be taken the Arena, to do otherwise is a punishable offense. Notice that you can report people for starting fights in the emporium and get them in trouble IC? That's to make Juxta a community and not the wild west. That someone would know of all the fights that occur outside Marshall's watches would to me indicate they're a regular.

(2) The thing is that, chances are, this individual was new to the plane. He may not have been able to make it to the Temple district in time, or he may simply not have known his way. People come to the Market on Juxta from all over the planes to do business, most of them don't come to see the temples.

I don't go to cities to visit hospitals either, but if I was bleeding to death I'd find one.

(3) Sure you might find help somewhere else, but why not Juxta? There's plenty of people there, and many of them are healers. There's also plenty of portals leading in to Juxta, making it an easy enopugh place to get too.

Because it's a strange place, it's full of wierdos. Why not run back to your home where you know where to find healing than risk dying in a strange place? Better the devil you know than the devil you don't.

(4) Yes, I could have, but that would have been beyond the point. The point was to see if this character would draw attention. Obviously that can't be done off site.

Exactly, you were demanding people either give you attention or you'd have your character die. That is not a good roleplaying practice and not one to be encouraged or rewarded.

In fact is should be actively discouraged since it to me constituites harassment (participate in my plot or I'll emotionally blackmail you and your character).

Now, not to sound bitter, but: Why didn't anyone help him? Surely that's a lot harder to justify than how he got there.

Why should they?

Using real life as a source there are many, many cases where people have died painfully in public and nobody has come to their help. There are cases where people have been murdered in public and nobody has come to help them or even called the police.

It's not their job to save everyone and they may not have felt prepared to handle the situation. But really, it's none of your business why they didn't... that being the point of this thread:

They were playing their characters. It's their perogative whether they want to help out a bleeding stranger who appears to be in the market place for no reason and who everyone else (the NPCS) seems to know to ignore.

I'm sorry if any of this sounded angry. I'm not trying to be angry. The whole point was to see how hard it would be for someone new to be accepted. I wanted to see why so many new people complain and leave. I guess I found out.

Well I am angry and I'm doing my best to control it. I'm going to explain my theory on why this experiment failed, if it sounds aggressive I apologize.

I'm not going to pretend it's easy to come in anywhere new and make friends, little alone come into a marketplace with a bizzarre setting and bizzare patrons and all sorts of rules and unwritten cultures of course it's initimidating and it'll scare off a lot of people. I've been here for years and I get nervous every time I bring in a new character.

However, first impressions are incredibly important and will always make a huge factor in people's decision to help or not help someone OOC. And I can tell you, from what you described my first impressions of such a person would either be:

(1) A regular who's trying to start a new pity me or help me save my world/family/multiverse plot and has chosen the dying matyr approach.

Or:

(2) Someone knew to the chat who decided that everyone here should be obligated to help them if they make a wounded character.. and hence is liable to repeat this constantly.

Neither one is particularly desirable to roleplay with as I've already had numerous problems with both OOC in the past and have learnt that nothing good ever comes of rewarding such behaviour. I'd much prefer the n00b who wanders in with a name like dnd_freek and asks if anyone know who Drizzt Do'Urden is (at least they seem interesting in learning about the place).

I dunno, maybe what we should do is post a guideline to visitng Juxta for the first time somewhere. But I don't think it's fair to make a bad entrance, get a bad result and then claim it as evidence that people arean't friend to new guys.

I mean you can only rest so much responsiblity on the people who there just to have roleplay and have fun, the newbies have to make an effort too and in many cases it may turn out this site is just not for them.

 

[Nugan]

This argument on the liklihood of an injured person being in the emporium is getting circular at best, and I'm not going to risk it becoming a flame war by taking it any farther.

I will say, however, that well respected members wander into the Emporiun injured all of the time. I see it atleast once a week. I won't say whether or not they are playing their characters correctly, but I will say that they do get attention out of it and their wounds do get healed.

Why should a new character be treated any differently?

Do I recommend that new players stumble into the ISRP injured and dying?

No. For one thing, it obviously doesn't work. For another, there are better ways to meet people and make friends. However, it doesn't change the fact that they will be ignored either way.

That's what I was trying to say: "If you see someone who looks desperate for attention. Give it to them!"

Should we really be splitting hair over whether or not the way some new players choses to get attention is justified In Character? That's the kind of thing I was trying to discourage in my original post.

The point is that you should be willing to role-play with anyon, no matter how terrible you may thing they are at it.

People get better with time, and as they get better they come up with news ideas that can help everyone grow. That's what I've been trying to get across.

Also, I disagree strongly with the idea of a guide for people visting Juxta. Why? Simple, it would only promote elitism as the only people who will ever see the guide will be people who already know about the site. So the minute a new players wanders in, he'll be given one-hundred new ways that he can mess up and be ignored.

As I community I think we need to spend less time on tiny details of the setting and more time killing some of these pety fueds and animosities that are so rampant.

 

[The Official Ranter]

I think this is the main problem people have with such issues as these.

Sure, Juxta and Oerth are fantasy settings, but just because odd things can happen, does that mean that all realism should be tossed aside?

Yes, Juxta is supposed to be a place of law and order, but the people who ensure that law and order are not gods! As Nugan said, crime does happen, even in the community of Juxta. The big problem is, when the crime does happen, no one cares. There's no realism in it. People don't react one way or another, and I'm sorry but if you were out in town and you saw a crime happen you're going to react somehow! The only exception I would ever see to this is if Juxta were supposed to be a place where crime was common place. Where the people had seen it so much, that they just didn't bother anymore.

You also have to think of this. Juxta and Oerth are not all flowery pleasant happy.

Examples::

Oerth: Crossroads is a tavern. Even with the rules IC, it's still a tavern...things happen at taverns. People get drunk and get into fist fights. Somebody may try to hide from their enemy by blending in with the crowd. Thieves thrive on places like taverns, where it's busy and they can steal money with little to no notice in the crowds. The list goes on and on...

Juxta: It's a marketplace...again, thieves are gonna flock here like flies. It *is* a portal to many realms, not excluding those where evil people dwell. Thugs roam the marketplace just like thieves, sticking to allyways and thus possibly providing you with your beaten up character.

Put it this way, even though it's fantasy, there's still a good bit of realism involved. Now sure, if the setting of Juxta was a place where happiness and good times abound, then someone dropping in half dead would be pretty, for lack of a better word, stupid. However, the Juxta that I've come to know and love, is quite the oppisite. It's a place where the worlds come together and law holds presedence thanks to the Marshall's constant vigil against evil.


And as I've said many times before...things would be a whole lot better around here if we would remember...it's not all about you or me or the individual. It's about all of us coming together for a common reason to have fun.

Yours Truly,
The Official Ranter of Wizards.COMmunity

P.S. I'd really love to hear some WizO Input on this *shameless hint*

 

[Nugan]

Thanks Ranter.

That's pretty much what I was trying to say. Unfortunately, I tried to say too much at once and ended up with a horrible mess.

Anyway, I'd rather we didn't spend too much time arguing over this. I don't want anyone to feel hurt, because that would only lead to more of what I've been trying to discourage.

Let's put something this minor behind us and start worrying about some of the real problems in ISRP.

 

[The Official Ranter]

Anytime, mon amie!

Onto bigger and better fish frying!

I'll take mine well done

Sincerely,
The Official Ranter of Wizards.COMmunity