Please Let Me Play My Character

[Tharivious_Meliamne]

Originally posted by The Official Ranter
The big problem is, when the crime does happen, no one cares. There's no realism in it. People don't react one way or another, and I'm sorry but if you were out in town and you saw a crime happen you're going to react somehow!

You hit the nail on the head here. I'll even provide another eye witness account.

I was there when Nugan brought his diseased character into the Emporium, I was in as Tharivious. The character came in, stood by the fountain, and began to slowly and gradually sink into death due to his illness. The room was full, there were eight to ten individuals in there, among whom were at least three healer/cleric/priests/whatever who weren't busy at all. Not one person even looked in the character's direction except for Tharivious and the person he was interacting with at the time. Everyone else in the room sat there and went about their business, several of them sitting right by the fountain where the character was succumbing to disease.

I will state, this now, I did not react. I did not react, because Tharivious would not react. Tharivious would not react due to a long series of events in his life that has deadened his sense of compassion for those he does not care about directly. Thus, it did not make sense for him to respond. Now, does this mean he won't notice? Of course not. He noticed and looked. He took notice of his suroundings.

I'm not saying that everyone should help a dieing man out, far from it. That's not realism either. Not everyone will be helpful all the time or to everyone. However, characters should at least show some recognition for what occurs around them, even if all that they do is glance at the dieing person. That's all that I'm suggesting. Just throw a look at the people around you when something like that happens.

Because think about it: What would happen if someone was dieing right there within earshot of you and you weren't able to help? Would you just walk away without giving notice? Or would you give a glance at the person and then leave?

That's realism being applied to a fantasy setting, when you give your characters a realistic reaction, that's what is needed. I'm not trying to tell anyone how to play their characters, just giving an example of how things would work if you were the character.

 

[Jardel_Karabella]

Okay, this is getting long and overly complicated, so I'll try to summarise what I'm saying and hope Jax doesn't get mad at me for heating up the thread.

When you (whether you are new or a veteran) come in with a character in a situation which demands attention (you're dying, your world is going to be destroyed, etc) from strangers (not friends, or even enemies) then what you are saying is, "My plot and I are more important than anything you could be doing. You must stop it right now and come and do what I want you to or else.".

That is rude, that is abusive, that is outright hateful and it most certainly harassment which as well as being villified in the code of conduct goes against all common courtesy. If someone comes in with this attitude and does not receive a friendly response then they have nobody to blame but themselves.

Don't blame the regulars because your fictious n00b was rude to them and they didn't fall at his feet and beg to know how to serve him. They're just there to have fun and stood up for their right to have fun without it being squalshed by a selfish brat who thinks they're always the most deserving of attention.

If you want to help such people fine, but don't take the high ground and tell everyone they should stop having fun and endure abuse from random passerbys just so you can feel better about the site.

We're here to have fun...does that make us such bad people?

 

[Nugan]

Wow, now this is getting pretty strong. That's certainly not what I wanted.

I was not demanding attention from anyone. If I was, I would have gotten more of it, right? I was testing an idea. No one was obligated to respond, and next to no one did. That certainly is not harassment.

I will not make another response to this thread, because I was hurt by that last statement and I do not wish to say something that would cause more divisiveness in the community.

That said, I stick to my guns on this issue. Its wrong to ingore someone new in the first place, and its really wrong to ignore them when its obvious that attention is what they are looking for.

No one had to give up a monumentous amount of time. All they would have had to do was step over and cast a healing spell or atleast make one action turning their head and glancing at the fallen person. That would have atleast made the new player, had there actually been one, feel like he was being noticed.

Edit: One last thing before I abandon this thread. This isn't just me. I hear constant complaints from people who feel they are being overlooked or ignored by the players on this site. Many of them are new, some of them are not. They all complain of the same thing: People don't even acknowledge their existence. They'll do something to get just a little bit f attention and no one even turns their heads.

If people simply started acknowledging these things, even if they did nothing else, it would do a lot to make many people feel more at ease on the site.

 

[Jardel_Karabella]

I was not demanding attention from anyone. If I was, I would have gotten more of it, right? I was testing an idea. No one was obligated to respond, and next to no one did. That certainly is not harassment.

Your ultimatium was:
Someone come over and heal my character now or I will make my character slowly and painfully die infront of you!

That means, I have to stop what I'm doing, come over, use a healing power/device/process on you and hope you decide it's enough. Then if I want to make some vague attempt at realism talk to you about it, because I doubt anyone who uses this tactic would be happy with a driveby cure light wounds. Infact experience tells me such people generaly keep having more and more wrong with them so long as they get attention.

That said, I stick to my guns on this issue. Its wrong to ingore someone new in the first place, and its really wrong to ignore them when its obvious that attention is what they are looking for.

Yes it is wrong to ignore someone because they are new.

It is not wrong to ignore someone because they are trying to bully you into roleplaying what they want.

Newbies can be excused for not knowing the ins and outs of the setting, they can be excused for not understanding exactly what is happening, they can be excused for having wierd screen names and not knowing how to private message or emote. They can be excused for any number of ignorances about the site. They cannot be excused for lacking basic courtesy or respect for others.

No one had to give up a monumentous amount of time. All they would have had to do was step over and cast a healing spel or atleast make one action turning their head and glancing at the fallen person. That would have atleast made the new player, had there actually been one, feel like he was being noticed.

And what would that have taught them: That the proper way to come in and get attention at Wizards is to emotionally blackmail people into coming and helping you, that doesn't make for much of a regular roleplayer.

This is what I mean by a Guide to entering ISRP.

A quick little summary for newbies, link provided either on the main page or the sign up page, which outlines to them what things work and what don't. That way they can be given suggestions on how to make a good first impression, make friends and learn the right things from word go.

 

[Nevine]

Come on, people, they’re not supposed to be perfect. We’ll let evil people be unpleasant, because they’re evil. But if you’re not, you’re required to be a happy, smiling helpful person who’s always got a chair open for anyone. Or else you’re a bad player who’s clique-ish.

The only thing I have to say, is about the whole "clique" thing. At this point, it has been said so many times (over and over again) that when someone puts a comment complaining about it in their posts I just see them looking for something to point their finger at. If it's really as rampant as some people seem to think it is in their head, well, I'm sad to inform you that it isn't going to change. It's a player's choice, they don't have to play with you and you don't have to play with them. Them's the breaks.

I'm not saying that everyone should help a dieing man out, far from it. That's not realism either. Not everyone will be helpful all the time or to everyone. However, characters should at least show some recognition for what occurs around them, even if all that they do is glance at the dieing person. That's all that I'm suggesting. Just throw a look at the people around you when something like that happens.

However, glancing at everything little thing that would warrant a glance (which can be a LOT at times) just to show recognition for the person can get tedious. Not only that, but, glancing could be considered an open invitation.. Next thing you know, the dying person is crawling over to you. Meh..I can see where you're coming from though.

A closing comment about helping people that are wounded, dying, etc. Characters don't have to help everyone, they don't have to help anyone. A paladin, even with their code, isn't bound to help every single person they come across (especially if they aren't even on their home plane). The same goes for real people. When you get certified for CPR they tell you as a part of the course (or they're supposed to anyway) that you are not obliged in any way, shape or form to help someone if you do not feel comfortable in the situation, even though you possess the skills to do so.

Edit: Spelling.

 

[The Official Ranter]

*SNIP*If people simply started acknowledging these things, even if they did nothing else, it would do a lot to make many people feel more at ease on the site.

And, to add to this statement, it would add to the realism. Sure, maybe you don't go and heal the person, but you don't just say "So what...they don't matter" either. Granted, again, there are characters who have their reason for just ignoring such things, but last time I checked that wasn't every damn person on site!

Besides, you may never know what you're missing out on. Talk to the person OOC. PM them and ask them what's going on. No you're not obligated to go tend to them IC, but can't you be courteous OOC?

And as for these type of things being harrassment? Waaaaay off base. How are they harrassing you? Unless it's the kind of people who PM and say something like "You need to help my character" or continuously bug you about it, it's not harrassment. Just because someone comes in injured hoping perhaps to gain attention, doesn't mean they're harrasing you by "demanding" you participate in their storyline. Unless they are literally doing so, then it's not a crime, and freedom of destiny dictates you can do whatever the hell you want. Realistically though, you should think about how your character might react. Some are going to go and try to help, or try to get them help. Others will turn the other cheek. Others may notice, but don't want to get involved, maybe because of something in their past. Whatever you choose, it's not harrassment on their part unless they're directly demanding you heal them. Implied just doesn't cut it, sorry to say.

And Jardel...

Not to be deliberatly attacking you, but...You say that such actions are like an ultimatum saying: "Someone come over and heal my character now or I will make my character slowly and painfully die infront of you!"

All I have to say to that is...whoa...step back a sec. If you have a problem with characters dying in front of you, that's your issue. Don't take it out on others. Death happens...it's a part of the REALISM of the game that some people RP out, but it's still just a game.

My two cents...

Yours Truly,
The Official Ranter of Wizards.COMmunity

 

[Nugan]

I know I promised not to come back, but I couldn't help myself.

No, no one is obliged to acknowledge anyone else, and if you are busy on some pressing storyline point or something I wouldn't expect you to.

However, if you just happen to be sitting around talking to someone: Why not? I mean, if this person is making such a desperate cry for attention, why not just give them what they are looking for and maybe mak an new friend in the process. That's what I've been trying to say. Not that anyone is required to do anything, but that we should be a bit quicker to approach each other when we get the time.

I also don't think that players would do such displays all the time if they are acknowledged for them. If they can get one other player to rp with out of it the first time, and that person brings them into their group, then they have no reason to do it again. Although I'm certainly not saying its the best way to get attention in the first place.

In the end, my experiment was a bit extreme, but I only wanted to prove a point about the need for more openess and acknowledgement in the ISRP rooms. I certainly didn't want a fight, and I honestly have no idea why there was one at all.

Ok, that's it. I'm sorry if my actions bothered anyone. I'm certainly never going to try something like that again.

 

[Tharivious_Meliamne]

Originally posted by Jardel_Karabella
A quick little summary for newbies, link provided either on the main page or the sign up page, which outlines to them what things work and what don't. That way they can be given suggestions on how to make a good first impression, make friends and learn the right things from word go.

The problem with the theory of haivng a link to something like a Guide is the same as the problem with posting something on the message boards: Not everyone who should see it, will see it.

You can look over the guides here on the boards. Nugan's "How Not to be a Power Gamer" thread, Ssussunriyh's "ISRP Descriptions 101", my "Guide to Combat Roleplay". All of these have been tagged as highly useful to new players and old players alike.
What's the reason that new players continue to make mistakes?
It's because not everyone will take the time to use the resources available to them, no matter how accessibly they are. If something is only a mouse-click away, that's no gaurauntee that the person will actually that the time to click and go to it, no matter how helpful going to such a link would be for them.

Originally posted by Nevine
However, glancing at everything little thing that would warrant a glance (which can be a LOT at times) just to show recognition for the person can get tedious. Not only that, but, glancing could be considered an open invitation.. Next thing you know, the dying person is crawling over to you. Meh..I can see where you're coming from though.

I can certainly see where you're coming from on this one as well. If the room is full and there are several subjects that warrant at least a glance, it would get tedious and annoying to the player. I won't disagree there, because you make perfect sense on that point. I myself don't glance at everything when the rooms are nearly overflowing with characters, only those who would be distracting enough to my character to make him glance.

But at the same time, in the example I detailed above, the room was relatively busy for being late at night, but there wasn't much going on. One or two conversations among the rest of those present, but nothing major was going on that would occupy their attention enough to prevent them from glancing, or even enough people present to make a glance tedious.

I do see your point about the glance being percieved as an open invitation for the character to approach yours, but I think that can also depend on how the glance is described. There's a difference between giving someone 'an indifferent glance' and 'glancing at someone with a look of pity'. It's all in the roleplaying in these cases.

 

[Nevine]

Besides, you may never know what you're missing out on. Talk to the person OOC. PM them and ask them what's going on. No you're not obligated to go tend to them IC, but can't you be courteous OOC?

See, this is a problem. That statement brings OOC too close to IC. Just because my character isn't going to help someone doesn't mean I have to PM the person and chat it up with them about the situation. And I'm not discourteous for not doing so either. I don't need to talk to the person just to be nice, that's just a little extreme. If someone is going to do something they had better get up the confidence to do it and not require or expect friendly PM's about what they are doing (of course they shouldn't get negative ones either, naturally).

 

[Jardel_Karabella]

I know I promised not to come back, but I couldn't help myself.

That's okay, I support freedom of speech.

However, if you just happen to be sitting around talking to someone: Why not? I mean, if this person is making such a desperate cry for attention, why not just give them what they are looking for and maybe mak an new friend in the process. That's what I've been trying to say. Not that anyone is required to do anything, but that we should be a bit quicker to approach each other when we get the time.

I could shoot of a dozen reasons, but that would get us stuck in a point for point debate. However the point is here: You never really know why someone isn't doing what you expected.

Possible in character explanations
- Are they deadly afraid of illnesses?
- Are they from a culture where you don't help strangers?
- Do they have superstitions about helping strangers?
- Are they merely apathetic to the suffering of others?
- Is that "little chat" they're having on the bench actually something critically important that they can't tear themselves away from?

Possible OOC reasons
- Have they had many bad experience with such plots and players in the past?
- Are they currently distracted by something going on in PMs?
- Do they simply have more than enough on their plate and don't feel they can handle anymore right now?

That's just a few examples off the top of my head, many of which have applied to me in the past.

I also don't think that players would do such displays all the time if they are acknowledged for them.

Well experience and my psychology classes that I was cruely forced to take in college tell me they will. I won't name names, but I have known of several "needer" characters who were constantly being flung into disaster by their players simply so the character would get attention.

Why did they do this so often? Because that was a system they'd found that worked and they figured when you find a good thing, stick to it.