If the con bonus was unnamed or sacred I rank it a 5. with a decent duration, speed, and a con bonus that stacks with everything it would be fairly useful, and similar to the barb's rage, you can use it when you need to remain conscious. But as is, a 3, its too easily replaced by lots of other things.
Please rate Divine Vigor
- Thread starter smetzger
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Elder-Basilisk
First Post
We must have very different ideas of item availability and balance. I would rate a feat that granted a +4 enhancement bonus to str, dex, and con for 1 hr/cha bonus for the price of one turning attempt a 10. I would also use such a feat as a replacement for the various buff spells and items--as such, I suspect it would last well beyond level 10. There'd be no need for any spell that didn't consistently grant +6 to stats or any item that didn't grant +6.
The 32k gp that the character could theoretically spend for +4 str and +4 con items would go toward getting a +1 Holy Sure Striking Flaming Adamantium Warhammer of Disruption instead of a +1 Holy Flaming Sure Striking Adamantium Warhammer--or getting +8 equivalent armor instead of +6.
The 32k gp that the character could theoretically spend for +4 str and +4 con items would go toward getting a +1 Holy Sure Striking Flaming Adamantium Warhammer of Disruption instead of a +1 Holy Flaming Sure Striking Adamantium Warhammer--or getting +8 equivalent armor instead of +6.
Archer said:
I'm giving this a three. I feel this is substantially better than some of the other Divine feats that have very limited usefulness, but I still don't think it's good enough to justify taking. The con bonus is nice, but of limited use since it's named. The speed is nice, but also keep in mind that it's possible to gain +5ft to your move permanently with a different feat.
Ok, maybe +4 to all physical stats for 1 hr/cha is too strong but either +2 to all for the same duration or +4 for 10 minutes flat duration is too weak for 2 feats. Rapid Shot/Point Blank is a better 2 feat pair.
At 10th level you are looking at 1d4+1 with upwards of 30 hr extended duration or empowered versions which give up to +7. You have to be either a Cleric or a Paladin which tend not to have the highest physical attributes in the first place since they have to invest in wis and cha.
If this feat gave a +2 inherent bonus to constitution and +10 base move permanently for the loss of 1 turning attempt per day it would rate more or less equally with modified toughness giving +1 hp/level.
At 10th level you are looking at 1d4+1 with upwards of 30 hr extended duration or empowered versions which give up to +7. You have to be either a Cleric or a Paladin which tend not to have the highest physical attributes in the first place since they have to invest in wis and cha.
If this feat gave a +2 inherent bonus to constitution and +10 base move permanently for the loss of 1 turning attempt per day it would rate more or less equally with modified toughness giving +1 hp/level.
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I gave it a 7, but I'm biased as my Cleric of Cuthy 2 has it.
I think it's of great use at low levels, and peters down to good use in mid and high levels. Right now, with 13 STR and a Medium load (wearing Banded Mail) I move 15 ft per round. With this, I move 25 ft a round. While this means I can't outrun anything in light armor with a speed of 30, it also means I can outrun anything in medium armor and encumbered slightly. The possibility of needing to escape is a very Real thing in many campaigns- where DM's state clearly "Just so you know, you may encounter things that could tool you (ie the world doesn't morph around you to suit your APL's EL.)
As far as I'm concerned, the +2 Con is just gravy. If I can one day get a +4 Con Amulet I might, or I could invest in a Natural armor one instead. For now though, the mobility in combat is excellent.
For nods from the peanut gallery, just ask any of the people in my party I'm supposed to heal who would be out of my move ranges (hustle or run).
I think it's of great use at low levels, and peters down to good use in mid and high levels. Right now, with 13 STR and a Medium load (wearing Banded Mail) I move 15 ft per round. With this, I move 25 ft a round. While this means I can't outrun anything in light armor with a speed of 30, it also means I can outrun anything in medium armor and encumbered slightly. The possibility of needing to escape is a very Real thing in many campaigns- where DM's state clearly "Just so you know, you may encounter things that could tool you (ie the world doesn't morph around you to suit your APL's EL.)
As far as I'm concerned, the +2 Con is just gravy. If I can one day get a +4 Con Amulet I might, or I could invest in a Natural armor one instead. For now though, the mobility in combat is excellent.
For nods from the peanut gallery, just ask any of the people in my party I'm supposed to heal who would be out of my move ranges (hustle or run).
Having +2 Con for a few minutes is a whole lot different from having it all the time and how helpful are the 2 extra hp? You'll have aid next level and you get 1d8 temp hp and +1 to hit which is better.
If you could get Boots of Hustle (+10 move) for 1,000 gcs would you think this feat was good? Do you try to anticipate the encounter and use this ability?
You'll be wishing you had different feats when you get to a "high " level like 6.
If you could get Boots of Hustle (+10 move) for 1,000 gcs would you think this feat was good? Do you try to anticipate the encounter and use this ability?
You'll be wishing you had different feats when you get to a "high " level like 6.
Elder-Basilisk
First Post
Don't distort things. Aid gives an average of 4.5 hit points per level. 2 points of con gives 1 hp/level. The +2 con pulls even with Aid at level 4-5 and is significantly better thereafter.
If you want to show that a 2nd level spell makes the con portion of the feat unnecessary, Endurance (which is a good 2nd level spell unlike Aid which would not be impressive as a 1st level spell) is the one to compare it to. But that only makes the Con part of the feat obsolete. The movement part remains useful. . . .
That's pretty much exactly what I've done with my characters--either that or used it in the first round of outdoor encounters where all anyone was doing was exchanging missile fire with nearly invisible goblins in four-six foot tall prarie grass anyway. (Usually a rather pointless exercise). When you're on the attack (as adventurers often are) it's usually fairly easy to anticipate encounters--I'd say I can tell that about half of the total encounters are coming.
I'm not sure how many times it needs to be said but it is only one feat. And when I've had the opportunity to play high level a high level character with it, he found it useful too.
If you want to show that a 2nd level spell makes the con portion of the feat unnecessary, Endurance (which is a good 2nd level spell unlike Aid which would not be impressive as a 1st level spell) is the one to compare it to. But that only makes the Con part of the feat obsolete. The movement part remains useful. . . .
Archer said:
That's pretty much exactly what I've done with my characters--either that or used it in the first round of outdoor encounters where all anyone was doing was exchanging missile fire with nearly invisible goblins in four-six foot tall prarie grass anyway. (Usually a rather pointless exercise). When you're on the attack (as adventurers often are) it's usually fairly easy to anticipate encounters--I'd say I can tell that about half of the total encounters are coming.
I'm not sure how many times it needs to be said but it is only one feat. And when I've had the opportunity to play high level a high level character with it, he found it useful too.
Ridley's Cohort
First Post
I gave it a '4'. A usable feat, but not quite a good one.
The two useful effects are intriguing at low level, but the prereq makes this very pricey when feats are few and precious.
At mid levels, the enhancement to Con is not likely to help. Furthermore +10' to movement isn't going to cut it unless you wear light armor; you will still need more mobility boosting than that to run away from a Big Scary Monster.
I think a big reason I marked this down more than other commenters is I rather dislike Extra Turning -- feats are too precious to Clerics and Paladins to double up uses you are unlikely to exhaust. If you are in a campaign where Extra Turning is a pretty good choice on its own merits, Divine Vigor warrants a '5'.
The two useful effects are intriguing at low level, but the prereq makes this very pricey when feats are few and precious.
At mid levels, the enhancement to Con is not likely to help. Furthermore +10' to movement isn't going to cut it unless you wear light armor; you will still need more mobility boosting than that to run away from a Big Scary Monster.
I think a big reason I marked this down more than other commenters is I rather dislike Extra Turning -- feats are too precious to Clerics and Paladins to double up uses you are unlikely to exhaust. If you are in a campaign where Extra Turning is a pretty good choice on its own merits, Divine Vigor warrants a '5'.
I usually don't reply to the Poll posts, but this one I'm going too. This feat is good. I used it with a halfling paladin, and that extra movement was very nice. And I cannot believe these people saying that +2 con is only good at low levels. Any con is good at high levels. You get +1 hp per level! This feat is as good as any first level spell in my opinion. And it doesn't even require a spell slot to 'cast'. If your Turn attempts per day are just sitting there doing NOTHING cus you haven't seen undead for 2 levels, this feat actually makes them worth something. I don't like Extra Turning very much either, unless you can use it for something other than just turning undead, and this feat allows that. Also, specifically for paladins, they don't get many spells. This feat can actually make their daily turning attempts worth while, since turning is level based and you can fail. This is a sure thing.
Best of the divine feats. But that isn't very hard to do... hehe
Best of the divine feats. But that isn't very hard to do... hehe
Paladins are using all their turn attempts for divine might and divine shield. +2 Con has value at every level but when your 9th level cleric is giving everyone and their henchmen and familiars 1d4+1 con bonus how useful is the feat then?
Its TWO feats. Saying its one feat is like saying Spring Attack or Whirlwind are one feat when they are really 3 and 5 feats respectively. Knockdown would be awesome if it was one feat but its 3 feats.
Its TWO feats. Saying its one feat is like saying Spring Attack or Whirlwind are one feat when they are really 3 and 5 feats respectively. Knockdown would be awesome if it was one feat but its 3 feats.
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